Not trying to start a flame war or anything... Just wondering. I'm reading Uprising and there was one thing that really surprised me: all those text pieces that, basically, explain the war and the whole shape of the Japanese society as a case of manipulation by the kuge. The way it's written, it seems to me that the people of Japan have been indoctrinated into blind obedience and following a social order that benefits only the elite. The whole idea of the samurai code, love for the Emperor etc. - it's all engineered by the kuge for the purpose of controlling the Japanese masses. And the Uprising? It happened only because the kuge didn't want to give up their privileges after Japan joined the Yu Jing. In the end, there's nothing noble or justified about the JSA's war - it's all a political plot by a group of selfish bastards. Heck, if it wasn't for the kuge, the Japanese would probably be respected citizens of YJ... Doesn't it make the JSA a bit... depressing? All these awesome soldiers, the brave Kuroshi Rider and so on... all of them are just indoctrinated pawns... Or am I reading it wrong? What do you think?
The Kempeitai and Kuge class have basically evolved into the totalitarian Yu Jing StateEmpire that they despised enough for revolution. But people always choose subjugation to their own people over subjugation by outsiders, generally. But what major revolution hasn't at least started as a political plot meant primarily to benefit only a few? That is basically what happened in the American Revolution -- a minority movement by a ruling political class consolidated political power in a local entity rather than a foreign one. I disagree with the idea that the Japanese would be respected citizens of the empire if not for the Kuge, though. Discrimination against the Japanese was policy, not just attitude.
I think people are more apt to being governed by their own, even if they might be a bit of a bastard, than a group of people who have hated them for years. It's entirely possible that the Japanese people know and understand that the Kuge are pulling strings - but go along with it anyway because they believe they have better interests for them than YJ.
Consider that culturally this Japanese elite class that you reach through military service is culturally what they think makes sense. In our history cultures trusted different ideals and rallied around them because it seemed to make the most sense. It is very relatively recent in history where we start to see people reject a ruling class and replace it with something more democratic. Greek senates were still mostly career politicians and elite despite its better populist structure. That alone is probably enough to say the population preferred this, but it's also important to note that there was no organization or supplies or allies without the kuge setting the terms "its better but we're on top"
True, but if I understand the background correctly, that discrimination only came to be because of the actions of the Kempetai and other radicals... who, in turn, were supported by the kuge. So, the whole situation went like this: 1. Japan goes into crisis. 2. The Japanese ruling class (who, even then, were the kuge, right?) decides: "We need to join YJ to survive". 3. After Japan joins YJ, the kuge realize they will have to give up their privileges... what they don't like. 4. The kuge start inflaming Japanese nationalism. 5. The Kempetai came into being (with the kuge's support). 6. The Kempetai's terrorist acts cause the YJ government to start oppressing the Japanese people. It's all the fault of the kuge! Anyway, my point is: do you feel that the JSA is a dystopian faction of people enslaved by the kuge? Or an awesome army of samurai and ninja? I admit I can't decide...
This isn't quote an accurate description of what happened. Japanese were discriminated against from step 2 that you've outlined there because they refused to fully integrate into the StateEmpire. And because of that, they became a target of further discriminiation. It seems more like the Kuge class was more dissatisfied with the spiral of further discrimination and further pushback from the Japanese than some kind of conspiracy. I don't think at the bottom that the two need to be mutually exclusive. Nothing is so one-sided besides the fluff about Vanilla YJ (/s). The Japan of Infinity is a newly reborn nation with a nationalist streak -- the Samurai class still existing is proof of this. But there is an undercurrent of secret policing and subterfuge (by the former Kempeitai) that still exists.
The bit that annoys me is that the entire Japanese population adopted this cliche drone mentality in like, six months.
I'm just going to say that you might want to read what happened to the signers of the Declaration of Independence over the course of the Revolution, who were all relatively wealthy businessmen at the time they signed it. That is rather my take on it, too. As to @meikyoushisui 's point about the Japanese not wanting to fully integrate into Yu Jing, my question is how many other nationalities refused to fully integrate at first, as well? Vietnam doesn't like China, one of the major holidays that is still celebrated in Vietnam today is the birth of Le Loi. He's the 15thC hero who freed Vietnam from Chinese control for the 4th and final time. And that's despite all the support China gave to Vietnam during the American War. Koreans, both North and South, don't like China. Neither one wants to be a Chinese puppet state ever again. Mongolians? They've had wars with China within the last 100 years... Do I need to keep going? Why can't it be both?
The Japanese population was already in this mentality when the uprising starts. Kuge shaping the Japanese society date from just after the Yu Jing integration, so it's a long process.
Hmm I don't want to go too much into the discussion but I think we need to take Japanese culture into account. Generally Japan is know for being authoritarian and very lenient to the ones in power, so for them to have a strong government deciding stuff is maybe not that far out.. Disclaimer, haven't gotten the book yet
Well I don't think you can call it naive. Actually most revolutions are more or less provoked or helped by influencial people who have interest in it. French revolution is no exception. And while there was a lot of good things, it was led by rich bourgeois in order to advance their interest (except for the terror and Robespierre part. That is when things got out of control of upper classes hands). I think this story may draw some inspiration from the Meiji revolution too. The supporters of the emperor were all "foreigners out. Good old samouraï way" and after they won the emperor openned the door to foreigners and suppressed those who supported him but were opposed to the modernization of Japan.
... okay, now it seems that the JSA isn't that appealing as a faction as I thought. Great. *throws the newly-arrived JSA Army Pack into the trash* *along with the also-newly-arrived Yu Jing pack of about 20 minis, who turned out to be evil monsters*
Easy there. You sounded like a friend of mine for a second. Whenever I buy into a wargaming faction from any series/universe that is out there, I pick them due to liking the: game, models, and the lore I come up with for my force in that universe. Basically if it inspirers me to think/write a story that I like chances are I might get them. I wouldn't throw away the JSA/Yu Jing stuff. I understand some people like my friend make decisions based on that. But to me, the guy who's first experience was the GrimDark 41st millennium, plus my reading/looking into of almost every major game lore coupled with this world we live in, is that every faction is tainted/evil to some extent thanks to a certain fallen Cherubim. Only God is perfect in both love & wrath while everything else fails to be that perfect perfection. So while I understand the reason for not using/throwing away the factions my personal opinion would do the opposite if I liked the story in my head enough.
Play the game, never buy the books, avoid any fluff that gets within your reach. A recipe for happyness if I ever wrote one.
Do what I do, if the fluff bothers you, and write your own narrative for your troops. Yes, the JSA as a whole may be dealing with poor leadership, but in Japanese history there have been many good, even great, leaders. My JSA troops are in the care of an honorable commander who values their lives - they fight for the suzume orbital mining corporation, owned by the kuge of the suzume family, who trace their lines back to the shimazu and otomo families of the sengoku period. My Yu Jing battalion is the 513th Terracotta shock division, deployed into hotspots on Paradiso and the Human Edge system to deal with pirates, Combined Army, and Hexas black-ops, they're professionals who keep collateral damage down, focus on the mission, and do their best to leave as few friends in bags as possible - I build my lists around elite troops and provide doctor and defensive hacking support, so I can enjoy the game despite the latest fluff from CB.
This might be more of my cynicism of being a historian coming in, but I think portraying the JSA side of the uprising turning out better than before would have been a disservice. Mostly because a lot of revolutions in history turned out to having trade a bad thing for something equally bad or worse. My opinion of course. :P
