Hassassins without fireteams

Funny, I was just thinking about this topic.

I think it's absolutely fine to run HB without fireteams. It's true that Vanilla is also a good option, but in Vanilla you should for sure run the Asawira+Rafiq (or Mukhtar+Rafiq) Duo, so it's not like you'd be avoiding fireteams entirely. Both are good factions but if you want to play HB, McMurrough is reason enough. You don't need to start forming fireteams to justify the sectorial choice.

In fact I think I over-fixate on my fireteams in HB, to my detriment. I'm not going to give them up entirely, but I need to think about forming them less often and breaking them more often. For example:

The Tohaa Classic
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3
ASAWIRA AP Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 39)
BARID (Hacker, Killer Hacking Device [UPGRADE: Trinity (-3)]) Rifle, Pitcher ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 15)
GHULAM (NCO) Rifle, Grenade Launcher, Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 15)
2.5 SWC | 69 Points
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I run this a lot and it's a very powerful fireteam, but I think I fixate too much on keeping it together. If I advance it up the table, I can accomplish a lot but I leave two very flimsy units in the midfield for my opponent to kill easily on their turn. What I should do instead is:
- If I need smoke down, try to place it first so that I can then leave the Ghulam behind in a safe spot.
- If I only need to shoot things, only advance the Asawira and leave the Barid behind.
- If I only need to push buttons and throw Pitchers, only advance the Barid and leave the Asawira behind.
- More likely I'll want to both shoot things and throw Pitchers, so I should treat this team as a Duo, advance the Asawira and Barid and leave the Ghulam in a safe spot.

Playing this way I'd lose the burst bonus, but the Asawira is plenty good at B4, as I well know from running him in Vanilla. As for the Barid, throwing B2 pitchers is order efficient, but wastes precious disposable ammo. Often I think I'd better off Pitching with B1 anyway.

Taking this logic to extremes, this would be a reasonable "haris":

DIY Duo
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3
ASAWIRA AP Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 39)
BARID (Hacker, Killer Hacking Device [UPGRADE: Trinity (-3)]) Rifle, Pitcher ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 15)
GHULAM (Lieutenant [+1 Command Token]) Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 15)
1.5 SWC | 69 Points
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The Ghulam is just there to allow me to form the fireteam. Once it's formed, I'm going to treat it as an Asawira-Barid duo.

That said, one haris that has sort of unique utility is this:

Murder Turret
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3
YARA HADDAD (Strategic Deployment) AP Marksman Rifle / Heavy Pistol(+1B), CC Weapon. (0 | 28)
BARID (Hacker, Killer Hacking Device [UPGRADE: Trinity (-3)]) Rifle, Pitcher ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 15)
GHULAM (NCO) Rifle, Grenade Launcher, Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 15)
1 SWC | 58 Points
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Use Strategic Deployment to deploy prone on a rooftop in the midfield. Use the Lt order to place smoke, then stand Yara up in the smoke. She just stands there and picks off anything she can see, one by one, with her B4 AP MMR and effective Mim(-6). This can be devastating. Of course if your opponent gets a template up there you lose 3 orders and 58 points in one wet splat.

I never run anything bigger than a haris in HB - I don't see the point. Maybe I'll link in an extra Ghulam to get Sixth Sense on turn 1, but when I advance the team it'll be at most 3 of them.

 

When I run a sectorial, I run it with Fireteams. Bahram included.

The question I'd like to start with is - what do you want to use the fireteam for?
The basic difference I tend to make here is:

• Offensive Fireteam. You want it to move forward, achieve objectives and engage enemy targets. You will be pumping Orders into it.
• Defensive Fireteam. You intend it to stay in the back, provide fire cover / support from a distance. You will be using it as an Order battery to power your other models.

Now, this isn't set in stone. You may decide your offensive fireteam can't really do stuff on the table in a given situation, and needs to castle up, let someone else do the heavy lifting (at least until the stiuation clears up). You may decide that the things went to the third rank already, and pushing your (originally intended as) defensive fireteam forward is your best chance for achieving the objective.
You need to have either course of action in mind when writing the list, and when deploying on the battlefield. For example, deploying a Fireteam high above the table level (as in on a rooftop or n-th story of a tall building) can give them excellent field of view, and also secure them from a close assault by many of the opponet's assets. However, you'll need a truckload of Orders if you decide you need to get them out into the field and do something. Orders you might be short on at the given moment.

When building a fireteam, consider equipping it wit a Doctor. In my opinion, an offensive fireteam should incldue one, if possible. This way the doc will be up there with the team when it starts taking casaulties, so you will be spending far less Orders to get to them than in case of bringing up a Nasmat from the rear. For defensive fireteams, being accompanied by a non-Linked Doc (or their Nasmat) is fine: they don't move around a lot.

A fireteam needs to bring adequate weapons for the ranges you expect it to fight over. In most cases, defensive fireteams will be fighting over longer distances than offensive ones.

 

I agree with @Errhile on the fundamental difference between an offensive and a defensive fireteam. I would further add that I don't think HB can form any good defensive fireteams. We just don't have strong long-range ARO pieces, and the ok long-range ARO pieces we do have are prohibitively expensive to link.

If I were playing RTF then I would for sure use a defensive pure Ghulam core with a Zhayedan sniper or ML on overwatch, but HB can't do anything like that.

The closest we have is the Muyib HRL, which is an ok ARO piece at B2. But if you use him too aggressively he will die very quickly. He can be nice in an offensive link, providing a Tac Aware order and occasional long-range active turn fire, then on turn 2 or 3, put him out on ARO from wherever your offensive core ended up. But I wouldn't generally put him on ARO duty on turn 1, or build a defensive fireteam around him.

So, when I think about HB fireteams I'm thinking about offensive teams. For defense, I'm looking at Daylamis and Nadhir, not link teams.


I did try running doctors in my links but wasn't impressed with the result. The problem is that once your team is in the midfield, if the opponent takes it down they're taking the whole team. The Ghulam Doctor is super flimsy and will be one of the first casualties, so she won't be able to do her thing. In theory she's good for getting the Asawira back up if he eats an unlucky crit in the active turn, but in practice my Ghulam doctor just wasn't doctoring.

OTOH if I were running the aforementioned defensive Zhayedan team in RTF, I would for sure include Ghulam Doctor to bring back the Zhayedan as needed.

 

Offtoping a bit, but in my last game I had an (RTF list) with a Zhayedan (HMG & Doc) / Ghulam (Lt. & Hacker) and a Naffatun HFT. The reason behind Zhayedan Doc was his ability to Regenerate an unlucky Wound. Didn't turn to be necessary that time, but I see it as a significant selling point. The team ended up working as a Defensive, but the list I had was build with a shitload of Orders. And a Shakush in #2 Group.

As to Hassassins, I think* my last Bahram list had a Govad Engineer, Muyibs (Doc & GL. Could've been the Lt...), Lasiq FO and if memory serves, Layla Sharif. Intended for offensive use, though again, did not get used at all (my opponent smashed his face against my fist'o'Daylami in his initial turn, and yielded the game before I could do anything). Yes, it has a load of specialists, but the scenario was, if memory serves me, Highly Classified.

*I cycle through my 6 sectorials, averaging 1 game per week - and that only if I'm lucky and my opponent doesn't call the game off. Plus, I don't keep my lists: as soon as the game is over, the list lands in a waste bin. So my previous Bahram game was many, many weeks ago :(

In my eyes, in Bahram, Ghulam make for decent defensive teams: they're cheap, and can be kitted out with long-ranged weapons (Sniper rifles, missile launchers, even Panzerfausts in a pinch). The downside is they need Layla to bring them to full 5-members of a pure Fireteam.

For offensive - I'm yet to test the post-Blackwind setups with Bokhtar. Mixing Muyibs (for general mayhem) and Govads (MSV L1, always handy - especially if you play mostly vs. Aleph, like I do. Because that's what my last regular opponent plays) seems to be a nice idea for a Core. A Haris can well be formed with an Asawira or two (Spitfire, and a Doc. Always good to have a Doc around IMO - if you can afford an Asawira one, even better), and I used to usually bring a Muyib GL along for Smoke. Neat little strike package, with smoke, a specialist, and a damn nasty high-Burst mid-ranged SAW.

 

I run 2 Fireteams most of the time:

Defensive Core Link: Ghulam NCO / Barid KHD / Barid Hacker / Muyib HRL
Offensive Harid: Asawira AP Spitfire / Asawira Doc AP Rifle / Muyib HRL

My Lt is usually Barid Hacker or Asawira Spitfire - depends on the mission I play

Muyibs HRL are fantastic ARO pieces, are cheap, dogged and if they survive the first ARO phase offer more order flexibility with Tactical Awareness.

Defensive Core Link is for spreading Pitchers and Smoke plus Muyib HRL AROs

 

My last game was hassa. I used 2 3 man fireteam (haris and 3man core).

My offensive one:
- Bokthar lt red fury
- Leila Shariff
- Yara Hadadd with strategic deployment

it's my main attack piece with leila actin as specialist and tool, bokthar triing to kill things and yara for saving some orders or shoot though smoke

Support Ft:
Barid hacker
Barid killer hacker
Ghulam nº2 (can put your favourite ghulam)

use the +1B to try to put 2 pticher/order and make a hacker net cover.

Hope this can help you.

 

What was the reason behind Bokhtar Lt?
I can't really see an advantage - your Lt. can't use Lt. Order without dropping from a fireteam, and your Lt. is going to be in the thick of things anyway - so risking death. Tactical Awareness is present on all the Bokhtar FTO profiles anyway.

Of course, you might have covered the LoL problem by using a Farzan CoC - can't tell without seeing the rest of your list. And you might have counted on the offensive team falling apart at some point, giving you an extra (Lt) Order on a very effective offensive model.

 

Not have a free ghulam for lt trick.I Included a chain fo command farzan who can take command or act as specialist. In late turns, if one of the members die, break the group and act as solo rambo. But you are right, no need to be lt.

Hassa1
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GRUPO 1 9 1
BOKHTAR FTO (Teniente, Sentido Táctico) Red Fury / Pistola Viral, Arma CC Shock. (1.5 | 50)
YARA HADDAD (Desp. Estratégico) Fusil de Precisión AP / Pistola Pesada(+1R), Arma CC. (0 | 28)
LEILA SHARIF (Hacker) Fusil de Precisión Shock, Minas E/M, Cargas-D / Pistola Breaker, Arma CC. (0 | 20)
FIDAY Fusil, Escopeta Ligera, Granadas de Humo / Pistola, Arma CC DA. (0 | 26)
FARZAN (Cadena de Mando) Escopeta de Abordaje, Minas Shock / Pistola, Arma CC. (0 | 28)
GHULAM (Médico [+3]) Fusil, Escopeta Ligera ( | MediKit) / Pistola, Arma CC. (0 | 15)
NASMAT Arma CC PARA(-3). (0 | 3)
NADHIR (Observador de Artillería) Subfusil, Flammenspeer / Pistola, Arma CC. (0 | 24)
LASIQ (Ataque CD [+1 Daño]) Fusil de Francotirador Viral / Pistola, Arma CC. (1.5 | 27)
LASIQ (Ataque CD [+1 Daño]) Fusil de Francotirador Viral / Pistola, Arma CC. (1.5 | 27)

GRUPO 2 4
BARID (Hacker, Disp. Hacker Asesino [UPGRADE: Trinity (-3)]) Fusil, Pitcher ( ) / Pistola, Arma CC. (0 | 15)
BARID (Hacker, Disp. Hacker) Fusil, Pitcher ( ) / Pistola, Arma CC. (0.5 | 17)
GHULAM (Nº2) Fusil, Escopeta Ligera, Panzerfaust / Pistola, Arma CC. (0 | 13)
REMOTO FANOUS Pulso Flash / Arma CC PARA(-3). (0 | 7)

5 CAP | 300 Puntos

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Full list if someone is interested.

Cheers

 

With Bokhtar being the badass she is, plus having a Farzan CoC to take over if Bokhtar falls, it is a reasonably safe setup IMO.
And having Lt. Order on Bokhtar once the team breaks up might be nice as well.

Alternatively, you could designate the Barid Hacker your Lt (it'd cost extra 0,5 SWC, but your list can take it). Then again, being able to spend Lt. Order on hacking used to sell the (non-linkable, at the time) Barid Lt. for me back in N2 / N3. Wouldn't really work in your list.

 

I usually just treat the Farzan CoC as my actual lieutenant, and don't worry about protecting my original lt. In that list, it doesn't really matter which unit is the lt since none of the options can use the lt order anyway. Might as well choose the Bokhtar since of all the options, it's the one most likely to have an opportunity to use an lt order at some point in the game.

The list kind of illustrates which I don't like the idea of the Bokhtar haris - there's just not enough points left for the rest of the list. For the same reason, I'm not sure it helps the OP in his goal of de-emphasizing fireteams. But I don't think having the Bokhtar as the lt is a problem in it.

 

Hmm, I didn't read that the OP intends to de-emphasize fireteams, rather than he doesn't feel he builds / uses them right, and would like some advice.

I agree, Bokhtar is very expensive for Bahram standards. Whether it is worth the points, I really cannot say (haven't used mine yet).

 

Fair enough - since he was asking about playing with no fireteams at all, I assumed focusing less on them would also suit him well. But I may have been reading in my own desire to de-emphasize fireteams :-)

As for the Bokhtar... I'm not sure whether I think she's too expensive in herself. I don't think she's my style, but that doesn't mean she's not worth her points. She looks like she could be a strong solo piece. It's the haris that I'm more confident is too expensive. You take an already super costly piece and then add another 45 points to follow her around when she would have been happy by herself. That's the part that's too expensive to my eye. I like a heavy hitter that links with Ghulams and Barids.

 

I still think that running fewer and smaller links is a good idea, so I think it's reasonable to take it to extremes and run no links at all. But I doubt you'll find any specific advice on running zero links, since nobody else is taking it quite that far. Hopefully my small-links suggestions were helpful.

HB does have a lot of good solo pieces, though. For attack, Bokhtar as mentioned. McMurrough. Fidays. Daylami. Shakush. Fiddler. Sunduqbot has its adherents. Asawira, despite wanting to be in a link to suppress Frenzy, is still very good solo. About the only attack piece I wouldn't use outside a link is Yara - she just isn't good at B3.

For defense, I maintain that HB shouldn't be using links anyway. Daylamis and Nadhir are our defensive bread and butter. Of course, others above have disagreed, but if you don't want to run a defensive link then I don't think you'll miss it.

Even Barids are perfectly fine unlinked. Vanilla players are all running two of them.

 

Keep in mind you can use Asawira with a Muyib or Govad (preferably a specialist, I guess - for objectives) in a Duo.
This will keep frenzy supressed, and a Duo should be easy to handle on a battlefield.
The downside is the cost of the Duo model.

I mean, you can do this with a Lasiq or Bokhtar too, but I really can't see a point in that.

 

In case if you dont use full link and expensive haris how do you spend points?)
I agree HB doesnt have good defensive core as CB didn't let Lasiq to be in Ghulam. Moreover there is no sense of offensive core as we get +1BS only with bulky team to be taked to midfield.
But what about haris is like below

ASAWIRA (Lieutenant) AP Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 39)
ASAWIRA (Doctor [+3]) Boarding Shotgun ( | MediKit) / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 36)
MUYIB (Tactical Awareness, X Visor) Heavy Rocket Launcher, D-Charges ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 25)

 

I think HB can work very well with 3 men fireteam, so you can mix and don´t lose much bonuses from pure fireteam.

I started playing HB recently from other haqq sectorials, so take my advices with salt. I think the utility of yara in this sectorial is to take her in a fireteam with the tactical deployment option, to save you an order or at least to find a better spot for deploy the fireteam (3 men ft give you at least burst bonus and is small enought to hide them).

@Duront , I find one of the selling points to play sectorials over vainilla is the fireteam rules. I can only suggust you to try to use some of them. If you find fireteams rules awkards, try to use 1 3 man ft. When you feel confortable try to add a second 3 men ft. I find this sectorial con work very well with small ferateams in comparisson like RTF, for example.

Cheers.

 

If you have 3pts left you might consider upgrading the Asawira Doc from Boarding Shotgun to AP Rifle & Light Shotgun due to more versatile weapon rangebands. I love this haris and will use it in the upcoming tournament as it is in both of my lists :)

 

True. I do think it's worth considering my idea, above, of putting the Asawira in a haris with a Barid and a random Ghulam you're taking anyway (like the Lt(+1CT)). Then leave one of them behind and advance as a two-unit haris. I haven't tried it yet, but it seems like a good way to get around the lack of Ghulam Duo.

McMurrough, Fiday, Nadhir are my usual picks. Also, I've been running two cheap harises (technically, a haris and a truncated core) which adds up. Shihab has also been making a comeback for me recently. If I have more points, I take Fiddler or a Shakush. We definitely aren't lacking in good expensive solo pieces.

I do like the massed Asawira paradigm. I haven't played it in quite a while, but here is me running it a year and a half ago: Four Asawiras in Virginia | Corvus Belli Community Forum. If I did it now I'd probably do it a bit differently - for one thing, Daylamis aren't 6 points anymore! But in general I think the idea of camping a bunch of Asawiras in the midfield is solid. You have to be really conscious of templates and careful not to overextend.

I would keep the boarding shotgun doctor, for the DA CCW. Or replace the Muyib with a third Asawira to get the DA CCW. The Shock CCW Asawiras are kind of embarrassing in CC.