1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Winterforce "crash"

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by Urobros, Mar 10, 2022.

  1. Urobros

    Urobros Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,790
    Likes Received:
    1,380
    Hello my Pano-pals,

    Winter
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10 [​IMG]1
    FUSILIER (Lieutenant) Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 10)
    FUSILIER (Paramedic) Combi Rifle ( | MediKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 12)
    FUSILIER (Paramedic) Combi Rifle ( | MediKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 12)
    KARHU Feuerbach(+1B), AP Mines / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 35)
    ORC Heavy Machine Gun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 37)
    FUSILIER (Hacker, Hacking Device) Combi Rifle ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 15)
    SHONA CARANO Submachine Gun, Nanopulser(+1B), Flash Pulse / Pistol, EXP CC Weapon. (0 | 27)
    MACHINIST WinterFor (Mimetism [-3], Terrain [Total]) Combi Rifle, D-Charges ( | GizmoKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 18)
    LIANG KAI Chain Rifle, Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse / Pistol, EXP CC Weapon. (0 | 21)
    NISSE Heavy Machine Gun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 34)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]5 [​IMG]1
    GUNNAR MULTI Rifle(+1 Dam), Chain-colt / Pistol, Trench-Hammer, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 34)
    BULLETEER Spitfire / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (1 | 23)
    FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7)
    FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7)
    FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7)

    6 SWC | 299 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
    the past weekend I went to a Tournament in command of Winterforce. The missions were "Front Line", "Supplies" and "Rescue". I played my regular winterforce list because I engaged vets players in all the matches, so it wasn't the occasion to do some experiment.

    The first Game I faced White Banner, my rival won the Initiative roll, so he wont "side of the table" letting me the choice of "go first" or "go second". Loosing the deployment did the choice easy: "go first". He deployed me a list with pretty much "nobody" inside his deployment area and a bunch of camo. I think the only profile I saw directly was a Warcor. I did all the "discover+shoot" I could witjh my karhu feuerbach linked, cleaning a little the table of camo markers (mines mostly). The duo "gunnar+bullet" did a lot of work, forcing my rival to show up a hundun HRL too early. I was lucky because gunnar saved his armour roll. I was capable of harm my rival severely in my first and second active turns. He hit me too hard in his own active turns. But the third one I was lucky and I piked the right "camo marker" the Lt one. Gunnar did berserk and both die. The last turn my rival try to reach the central line but he couldn't so, I won.

    The second match I faced TAK, the table was a little too wide open, specially the center. I lost too the Initiative roll and my rival took too the "deployment choice instead "go first", so I take the choice to "go first" again. The thing didn't work too well to me. I tried to put down his ARO piece, a snipper frontovik linked in a full five member fireteam. I shut first with my hmg nisse in haris. 5 dices to 13 against 2 to 15s. The nisse was dead. So, I tried with the karhu in a full five members fireteam... 4 dices to 16 against 2 to 15s. The karhu fell unconscious, so I spend a couple of orders to put he paramedic in range, but I only managed to kill the karhu. So, I was running out of options, I choose to play "lucky" with hmg Orc. I won the first shooting, thanks to a critical hit, but my rival passed both savings rolls. The next order my hmg orc went to the ground two wounded, so unconscious too. With despair in my soul I tried with the bullet spitfire, but I was out of range, so instead go to 9 I went to 3... the rem was too putted to sleep. Thas how the first turn of the whole game went. Without menacing ARO, my rival took positions and killed my fugazzi rems, the "terrible pulse flash rems". I tried to do something with Liankai and Gunnar, but of course I did nothing. I had no place to hide in order to avoid the core, and no tools to fight against. The match ended in the second turn of my rival. He took 2 techcoffins and did both classified objetives. I couldn't take the 3 because the specialist in his left flank was an Irmandhino, which was the only miniature I managed to kill. The end of the game was ridiculous: 292 survival to TAK and only 34 points to Winterforce. It was a little of the last time I played a desigual match as this one. None of us had fun, not me, neither my rival.

    The third one against Tohaa... wasn't too much better than the one against TAK. Again I loose the Initiative roll and again, my rival took the deployment choice, letting me the bad choice to go first or second. I choose again go first. My first turn was almost the same as the first one against TAK, even worse. The hmg nisse (in haris) took covert to shoot a sukeul ML with "symbios" and in a triad... the dices rolled... 5 to 13s against 2 to 10s... A 10 was rolled, critical hit which made my nisse blow up. Then I tried again with the karhu feuerbach. I was more than 80, so I go again to 13, 4 dices against 2 to 10... another 10, another critical hit... the karhu left the game... nothing of him was recovered. The hmg orc choose to fight against the sukeul. I won the first F2F roll... the symb did the work and nothing happend. One again the dice rolled and another critical hit for my rival... I was "lucky" enought to be wounde only one, so my Orc could still do some work. I take the risk and did some shoots again against the sukeul and finally I was capable of killing the bastard. In the other flank I had a to face a gao-rael snipper in a triad too and with symbio too... My hmg ORC was too far and without orders to take a good LoT, so I decided to do some use of my spitfire buleetier... This time I won the face to face roll but the symbio did the work, and the gao-rael go prone. Without anybody looking I took care of the impersonator there, with gunnar I was capable of put Jan-Star down. The first turn the tohaa player wasn't too good thanks to "the Hero fugazzi" which thanks his flash pulses was capable to stop the advance of the gaorael triad, so I lost only gunnar. This and a more terrrain dense table, allow me to fight to manage the victory (or at least a tie). The luck was capricious for both of us, but in the end, my rival could place one troup taking control over my HVT and his Lt reached one civilian and managed to sync with it in the last order, so he won but at least I could to do some resistance. If Shona at least was survived to a couple of ARO combi hits, things could be different, but she didn't pass any saving roll.

    Why I'm telling you all this stuff... because what I'm describing is not the first time it happens to me while playing Winterforce. The lack of AD and decent camo marker (I don't count Uma even as "camo" and the Kunai... well we don't talk about him neither) in half of the table deny pretty much any option much more than "shoot and to shoot again, and again..." this could sound fantastic, when things go well, but when you have some kind of matches that the ones I had... you don't have almost anything to do. Literally a couple of bad roll dices can making you to loose the game. If the enemy had some long range weapons and your big shooters die, nobody can go there to be into the range of shorter weapons, not if the table don't allow to do it, and not every table allows it, so you are in a simple word: doom. You can't deploy an parachutist behind that corner and at least to try to shoot the ARO piece with that combi in good range... Not even to place smoke to avoid at least to face a lot of AROs and not only the "shooter" with visor in a desperate movement... Or doing move move with a camo, recamo if need and continue moving until you get out of LoT... The closed thing we have to do that it could be a Locust, or a Nokken, killer hacker but with no camo marker state, if our turn go as I narrate... when your next turn come it will be no nokken or locust there. Any cheap guy with a template gun can easily put down nokkens or locust (this one a little harder thanks the physics 12).

    These are the reasons I named the topic "Winterforce crash"... The thing is not only "cry" about the situation, but find a solution... What do you do when playing winterforce and your shooters fail to do his "only job"? How do you fix it?


    Best regards!
     
    AntipodeanBolt and Lesh' like this.
  2. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Chickenbot herder

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2019
    Messages:
    2,213
    Likes Received:
    3,456
    Good writeup. You've captured my thoughts on active turn shooters nicely. Something like a Karhu is great if it wins the f2f, and it usually does, but when it doesn't it dies and you lose. Even if it's only like a 20% risk, that's not a risk I like to hang a game on.

    For the same reason, I'm in the minority over on the Haqq forums that doesn't love Knauf. He shoots real good, but I don't like the risk.

    When I play Pano, I always bring a Dragao. Loses the f2f more often than a Karhu, but doesn't care and just keeps trying until it works. In Haqq, I bring a Shakush, or an Azra'il, or no long-range shooter at all.

    For Winterforce, have you tried the Jotum? I've said it before, but IMO the whole reason to play Pano is the fantastic TAGs. If I were making a Winterforce list, I think I'd run a Jotum for the active turn, a core linked Karhu on ARO, and... well, that would be all the points, so basically those two pieces :-)
     
  3. Brokenwolf

    Brokenwolf Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2019
    Messages:
    1,184
    Likes Received:
    1,832
    As a Haqqislam player, I have always looked longingly at the Locust. Have you tried either one of these profiles?


    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    [​IMG]2
    LOCUST Submachine Gun, D-Charges, WildParrot / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 25)
    LOCUST Boarding Shotgun, Grenades, Drop Bears / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 29)
    0 SWC | 54 Points
    Open in Infinity Army

    To me, they both seem custom built to be over-infiltrated and used to dismantle link teams with either a wildparot or drop bears. Sure its a risk (45%), but at 25 or 29 points that seems like it could be worth it for a great alpha strike.
     
    Urobros likes this.
  4. Urobros

    Urobros Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,790
    Likes Received:
    1,380
    While I'm a panocenian player as first army purcharse XD (ASA) I'm not a TAG player, only a collecter, but yes, I tried to play several times the Jotum and it was fun, of course, but I run out of orders too quickly, that is why I tried other options. (About the Dragoe... I'm not too lucky when I play with it... It like a "cursed profile to me" :D ) Looking to Haquisslam I always have other choices to do instead pure brute force. Maybe is only a thing about "flexibility".


    About the Locust... I'm superfan of the 25 points profile with Wildparrot. :) I have used that guy in several matches with success, but many times died too quickly under a template comming from a extra cheap enemy. Still, with 12 Phys at least a Locust has the chance to dodge. Maybe I should back to lists with at least one locust, or to do some use of others profiles.

    I have a tournament in about a week and half, so if I go with Winterforce I will try other lists. Maybe one with Jotum and other with Locust. I let you know.
     
    Brokenwolf likes this.
  5. Dyne

    Dyne Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    303
    Likes Received:
    251
    You know I'm not exactly the best player in our area, but that's my opinion! :grin:
    It's true that Winterforce doesn't have much camos, but remember that we now have access to the Beasthunter, a 15-point bargain with camouflage and FD+20cm. With two missions where protecting the center of the table is so important, I don't see the point of Gunnar, Liang and Shaonna. I think a list with Peacekamers, Beasthunter and a KHD Locust might had been more effective. Something like this:
    Winter
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    FUSILIER (Lieutenant) Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 10)
    FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 10)
    FUSILIER (Paramedic) Combi Rifle ( | MediKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 12)
    KARHU Feuerbach(+1B), AP Mines / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 35)
    ORC Heavy Machine Gun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 37)
    FUSILIER (Hacker, Hacking Device) Combi Rifle ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 15)
    MACHINIST WinterFor (Mimetism [-3], Terrain [Total]) Combi Rifle, D-Charges ( | GizmoKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 18)
    KARHU (Paramedic) MULTI Rifle, Blitzen, AP Mines ( | MediKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 28)
    NISSE Heavy Machine Gun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 34)
    LOCUST (Hacker, Killer Hacking Device) Breaker Combi Rifle, D-Charges ( ) / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 32)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]4 [​IMG]1
    BEASTHUNTERS (Surprise Attack [-3], Camouflage, Forward Deployment [+20cm]) Heavy Flamethrower, Panzerfaust, AP Mines / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 15)
    PEACEMAKER Heavy Shotgun / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 20)
    [​IMG] AUXBOT_3 Heavy Flamethrower / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 4)
    PEACEMAKER Heavy Shotgun / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 20)
    [​IMG] AUXBOT_3 Heavy Flamethrower / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 4)
    FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7)
    FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7)

    5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
    #5 Dyne, Mar 11, 2022
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2022
    Urobros likes this.
  6. Urobros

    Urobros Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,790
    Likes Received:
    1,380
    Every opinion matter, I'm neither the best player of our local meta @Dyne hehe. I hope we will see soon in any tournament. About what yoy said, yes, the beasthunter look like a really good addition to Winterforce. Probably I was, or I'm, too focused on the list I posted because it has worked too well until the last matches. I'm still trying to figure out what happend there... Too many games which I practically crashed myself against the ARO pieces of my enemy, five of them are moren than a "stadistic annomality". So, indeed, I need to change how I play winterforce and see if they are other options which works for me.

    Looking at your list, maybe I should give an step back and play a second group less flexible as the one with gunnar and bullet, but cheaper and still with some damage capabilities.

    About Gunnar, it provides me with someone capable of pushing buttons plus an extra order. He has too the capacity to hunt some enemies well hidden top of a building, for example, thanks climbing plus.

    Shona+Linkai (too Gunnar) are to me "area denaial" for my rivals. Nobody wants to be close to this guys. So they are a way to mantein enemy troups far away of my army, where I, tecnically, can shoot them better :) They are too a tool to fight against heavy enemy profiles, no TAGs or HI wants to be "engaged" by this two, Shona or Liankai. Gunnar thanks to Bornwarrior, someone who keeps CC enemy specialist away, so they are a good trio. Still, sadly Gunnar is a little too expensive.

    Thanks for your answer.

    I don't know yet if I will play with Winterforce in next tournament (19.02.2022) but if I do, I will be back here to share the experience.
     
  7. AntipodeanBolt

    AntipodeanBolt PanOceanian Hypercorporate Delegation Secretary

    Joined:
    May 4, 2020
    Messages:
    201
    Likes Received:
    355
    I cannot sing the praises of Vargar enough. I took a Double Jotum list in an Annihilation mission set. Only went down to Military Orders in my second game. The list I used

    agl3aW50ZXJmb3IeU3VwZXIgSnVtcCByaWdodCBpbnRvIHRoZSA4MCdzgSwCAQoBAQEBAAIBAQoAAwEBCQAEhdEBAQAFhc0BAwAGhc4BBAAHhc4BBQAIheEBAQAJJgEBAAqGIgEDAAIFAQMBAgAChcwBBQADEwEBAAQTAQEABRMBAQA=
     
    Urobros likes this.
  8. Urobros

    Urobros Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,790
    Likes Received:
    1,380

    Reading some comments it looks like are people playing others options, so maybe I'm too focused on a particular kind of Winterforce list, the ones worked to me really well in the pass and I'm now not really open to new Winter-experiences. I need to become more open minded while doing list.

    Thanks, guys. For the moment it was really useful :)
     
  9. Gio

    Gio Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2021
    Messages:
    50
    Likes Received:
    21
    Hi, I'm just wondering if there`s a tactics thread or article on WinterFor out there, can someone share a link?
    Thanks
     
    Golem2God likes this.
  10. AntipodeanBolt

    AntipodeanBolt PanOceanian Hypercorporate Delegation Secretary

    Joined:
    May 4, 2020
    Messages:
    201
    Likes Received:
    355
    What is it you’re hoping to achieve? The tactics with WinterFor will really depend on your list.
     
  11. SpectralOwl

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2018
    Messages:
    1,891
    Likes Received:
    3,130
    I don't think there's a Winterfor-specific thread, but you might get some mileage out of the other PanO Sectorial tacticas. Winterfor relies on its Fireteams perhaps more than any other army in the game, so any advice for building and using your Cores will come in handy.
     
  12. Gio

    Gio Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2021
    Messages:
    50
    Likes Received:
    21
    Well, I'm new to the game so I'm looking for general tactics, something like the ones in the main page

    I didn't knew this, I might try more fireteams in my lists... and I`ll be reading other PanO tactics as well

    Thanks!
     
    Urobros likes this.
  13. Urobros

    Urobros Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,790
    Likes Received:
    1,380
    I wrote sometimes about Winterforce, but in the spanish section, even they are some podcast, but in spanish too, if you can read it I let you the link: https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/winterforce-el-regreso.39848/ or listen it the podcast https://go.ivoox.com/rf/72555043, if not we can talk about Winterforce here or in another topic, for sure if you ask in the "pano section" it will be some players (like myself) more than willing to share his exeperiences while in command of Winterforce.
     
    Gio likes this.
  14. Gio

    Gio Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2021
    Messages:
    50
    Likes Received:
    21
    Gracias Urobros! lo tendré en cuenta!

    Thanks everybody
     
    Urobros likes this.
  15. Urobros

    Urobros Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,790
    Likes Received:
    1,380
    Your welcome / De nada.

    I'm afraid of the new fireteams rules at the same time I almost can't wait to see it. The first glow CB gave to us yesterday looks pretty well, the Idea appears a "good one", but we have to wait to see the "done". It could be something really game changer in a good way or the opposite, but "the idea" of variety on "how" a sectorial works with fireteams it is a "good way" to make it more "unique", but it is a dangerous one, because it could bring a lot of unbalances...

    I hope the fireteams changes fix some issues winter has right now, but if the firepower goes down in profiles like karhus, nisses, orcs (in general any linkeable shooter) Winter will pass a really hard time, unless the others benefits will be enough to avoid the possible firepower downgrade. We will see.

    But... coming back to the "topic", past weekend I played with SSA, first time, but other colleague did use of winterforce (@gravitypool ) and had the exactly same bad experience as I had, to me are too many games where this kind of "outcome" happens to be only a question of bad luck. I could think it is something with me if I saw others players playing Winter (or other pano forces) and not having this kind of issues really often, but sadly, it isn't the case. If we think about going to 13-14-15 with high burst should be enough in a majority of matches, not the contrary.

    The thing after chatting with others players, I really couldn't say "pano players" because many play too others armies (a good thing to have a more mind open approach when talking about problems), some ideas came to my mind. If I go mentally back to the past, when I began in Infinity I was an Acontecimento player which took the Guarda de Assalto instead the tikbalang and he did really well, right now, even being cheaper than it was years ago and still having BS15 (the highest) he don't do well, the guarda can't compete anymore against other profiles. Where it works before... not anymore. Why I bring this "fairy tail" about Aconteciment when I began to talk about Winterforce... because I think the issues with Winterforce are in the same place as the issues with the Guarda and many other pano profiles, high BS is cool but don't work as it did in the past, the game has progressively changed, so "only" high BS isn't enough, not anymore at least.

    Best regards!
     
  16. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    9,294
    Likes Received:
    17,066
    Screenshot_20220324-113626_Infinity Army.jpg
    Now WinterFor gets the Bøýğ in a Haris, and he picked up ECM (Hacking -3) Uma got cheaper and counts as a Fusilier for Fireteam bonuses.

    ORCs and Vargs can form a "Pure" Fireteam getting full bonuses.

    Karhu can no longer join a Core and get full Fireteam bonuses

    Oh, and we got the Hawkins, the Berserker Knight.
     
  17. Urobros

    Urobros Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,790
    Likes Received:
    1,380
    With this changes I'm sure we will stop to see how winter loses matches... because all winter miniatures will be in the bag or the racks... I'm a little dissapoint on how CB had left Winter, (Pano in general, even OM had suffered without no reason), but still I have to test the "new", maybe Winter will be still playable, but for sure the changes suffered don't fix the main problems (even they are now more serious than previously). Now I have the feeling vainilla is better that any Pano sectorial, while yesterday I thought the opposite. If someone were told me Tuesday that, I couldn't have believe it...
     
    burlesford and Azakel like this.
  18. Teslarod

    Teslarod when in doubt, Yeet

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    2,407
    Likes Received:
    4,864
    It's beyond me how there aren't more options like the WinterFor Alpha Fireteam.
    The existing 2 trooper complimentary Link teams should be exactly that. If you slot in a Wildcard you lose +1BS, would have been a good tradeoff.

    Shafting the Karhu and the KoJ for the whole Sectorial is a big questionmark.
     
    Urobros likes this.
  19. Gio

    Gio Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2021
    Messages:
    50
    Likes Received:
    21
    Are you saying that nothing works in Winter?, there must be some things... at least some units or fireteam options... nothing?
    ...Bulleteer + Gunnar Duo seems fine
     
    Urobros likes this.
  20. Brokenwolf

    Brokenwolf Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2019
    Messages:
    1,184
    Likes Received:
    1,832
    It can't be that bad? You now get two Haris teams and Boyd are linkable:

    Killer Haris?
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    [​IMG]3
    INFIRMARER Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon. (0 | 25)
    BØYG Missile Launcher / Heavy Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 47)
    QUINN Shock Marksman Rifle, Flash Pulse / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 23)
    1.5 SWC | 95 Points
    Open in Infinity Army

    Not many can get a Burst 3 BS 14 Missile Launcher. It is decent on the reactive turn with Burst 2 Missile Launcher that dodges on a 16.

    We will probably find even better combos in the future.
     
    Urobros likes this.
  • About Us

    We are a company founded in 2001 in Cangas (Spain), and devoted to design and manufacture games and figures. Our main product, Infinity the Game, was born with the ambition to satisfy the most demanding audience, offering the best quality.

     

    Why are we here?

     

    Because we are, first and foremost, players.

  • Quick Navigation

    Open the Quick Navigation