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Q: Does F-13 Turrets react to Impetuous?

Discussion in 'ITS' started by Mahtamori, Jan 10, 2022.

  1. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    F-13 Turrets react to Orders but Impetuous activation isn't an order, will the turret still shoot an Impetuous trooper when they activate in the Impetuous phase?

    Does F-13 Turrets react to Automatic Reactive Orders as well? That is to say, they will shoot Trooper who declare an ARO in their LOF much like how a mine will Trigger on a Trooper that does the same inside the Trigger Area.
     
    #1 Mahtamori, Jan 10, 2022
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2022
  2. solkan

    solkan Well-Known Member

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    On a really interesting related note, the Spanish version of Supremecy is missing two paragraphs of text.
     
  3. Robock

    Robock Well-Known Member

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    Excellent question, along with can your troopers react to impetuous activation ?
    Both the player's turret and the player's models & markers react to troopers activated with an Order, and Impetuous activation is a free, no order spent, activation.
     
    QueensGambit likes this.
  4. Robock

    Robock Well-Known Member

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    Does OES even apply to impetuous activation ? OES has steps that are followed "Each time the Active Player decides to use an Order (of whatever type) to activate a Trooper". Impetuous is not a type of Order.
    Step 1.1 is to remove from the table or otherwise mark as spent the Order used. And Impetuous does not use Impetuous Orders.
     
    QueensGambit likes this.
  5. Nathonicus

    Nathonicus Well-Known Member

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    Oops nevermind
     
  6. All ARO (which is what the turret is doing, with the limitations that the ITS rules specify: React to Models but not to Markers) is made against the activation of a trooper that is activated by using an Order on it (so you can't ARO an ARO, since the model doing the ARO isn't being activated by the use of an Order on it).

    The Rulebook specifies that the Orders are: Regular Order, Irregular Order and Lieutenant Order.

    Therefore, as the Rules are written, it is impossible to react in any way and with any troops to the actions made in the impetuous phase... because the Impetuous Order no longer exists.

    Edit for emphasis:
    If this is the intention in which the rule works, I don't know... but it is the way it is written.
     
    #6 Pettynyt Pelaaja, Jan 16, 2022
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 17, 2022
  7. Robock

    Robock Well-Known Member

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    at least if the impetuous trooper declares an attack on your non-reacting troop, he never gets to roll any dices for his attacks as there is no Order Expenditure Sequence when you are not expending any order. He's stuck to basically doing 2 free moves as these are the only skills performed when you declare them.
     
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  8. solkan

    solkan Well-Known Member

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    In the interest of not wasting anyone's time with the "But there's no order for the impetuous phase", please see: #75
     
    chromedog likes this.
  9. I want to make it clear that I fully agree that the «Activation» of a troop in the Impetuous Phase should work exactly the same as any other activation of a troop through the use of an Order, but unfortunately that is not what is said in the rules.

    What I wanted to emphasize with my previous message is not that Impetuous Activations are free actions with no chance of ARO, what I wanted to point out is that the rules, in this specific case, have such absolutely nefarious wording that following them to the letter is precisely what they say; which is why I wrote: «if this is the intention in which the rule works, I don't know... but it is the way it is written.»
     
    #9 Pettynyt Pelaaja, Jan 16, 2022
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 16, 2022
  10. To expand on my previous message, the rules are so completely poorly written for this situation that if there is no Order, there is no Order Expenditure Sequence and nowhere is it stated that skill actions (with the sole exception of Dodge) can only be performed following the Order Expenditure Sequence.

    So yes, there can be an Impetuous Activation of a troop without spending an Order and without following the Order Expenditure Sequence, declaring the objectives, making the appropriate rolls and applying the effects... without anything in the rules preventing it (with the exception mentioned above: Dodge).


    The small change of transforming the Impetuous Orders into Impetuous Tokens has been a failure of epic proportions... If something works, don't touch it.
     
  11. What should the rules say that now they don't? Just the following:

    Impetuous (Special Skill): This skill allows the troop that possesses it to generate and spend an Impetuous Order.

    Impetuous Order: Special Order that certain troops with the appropriate skill can generate. This Order does not accumulate in the Order Pool, it can only be used by the troop that generated it and only during the Impetuous Phase.
    The use of this Order is not mandatory, and the player can decide whether to use it or not. Unused Impetuous Orders are lost at the end of the Impetuous Phase.
    The only combinations of skills allowed during the use of this Order are the following: [..........................................]

    Impetuous Token: Token that is used to signal that a troop has generated an Impetuous Order, this Token is placed next to the model that generated the Impetuous Order and it is removed from the table when spending the Impetuous Order or at the end of the Impetuous Phase, when the unspent Impetuous Orders are lost.
     
    #11 Pettynyt Pelaaja, Jan 17, 2022
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 17, 2022
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