Hej folks, very new to infinity but already highly passionated im asking for your Feedback, critique and ideas. Im playing around the idea of creating a 300 point army lists which is divided in several groups (Core and Harris) for strategic management and flexible army sizing. This different groups should fullfill my need for a structured army setup which can be used for backline (Sniper Tourette), intermediate operations (Hacker and Specialists) and frontrunners (forward deploymemt) in a 300 point game. In addition to that i would like to use this groups to incrementally augment the team size from 100, 200, 250 and 300 points while always using the same setup. This would reduce costs and complexity. By that im able to play different sizes an tactics with only a few models and know them better. I know it‘s also reducing possibilities & fun :) Anyway - what do you think of A) this idea in general? B) the specific army setup? thanks and best regards Pyromaniac aka Romansky !300PT_PANO-SvalarWinterForce_Modular_5FusOrcDSniper_3OrcSpecOp_2NokkForward_3BotForward ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 6 FUSILIER (Lieutenant) Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 10) ORC (Hacker, Hacking Device) Combi Rifle ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 34) AGNES Submachine Gun, Nanopulser / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 14) FUSILIER MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 17) FUSILIER (Paramedic) Combi Rifle ( | MediKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 12) MULEBOT (Deactivator, Repeater) ( ) / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 8) GROUP 2 3 1 ORC (Hacker, Hacking Device) Combi Rifle ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 34) GUNNAR MULTI Rifle(+1 Dam), Chain-colt / Pistol, Trench-Hammer, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 34) ORC Heavy Machine Gun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 37) GROUP 3 2 NØKK (Minelayer) Combi Rifle, Light Shotgun, Shock Mines / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 27) NØKK (Minelayer) Combi Rifle, Light Shotgun, Shock Mines / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 27) GROUP 4 2 PEACEMAKER Spitfire / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (1 | 26) AUXBOT_3 Heavy Flamethrower / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 4) PEACEMAKER Heavy Shotgun / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 20) AUXBOT_3 Heavy Flamethrower / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 4) 6 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army
I think a lot of list building is modular by default, so I can understand this approach. For me, I talk about them differently (Attack pieces, Support Pieces, Cheerleaders/order batteries, Specialists, Camo Units). Do you want to go into discussion into the roles of each of the groups in the example list? This is what it looks like to me: Group 1 looks like the order battery and main link. Group 2 is an aggressive Haris. Group 3 is the midfield defensive line. Group 4 is the speedy attack pieces. I have a few a questions: What is the purpose for this list? What ITS missions would you use for it? Why Orc Hackers? What role do you have for them? The LT choice is somewhat obvious based on the models in the armies. How do you plan to mitigate Loss of Lieutenant? In addition, general consensus has yet to be developed on how the approach Winterforce, so I am glad you are starting a dialog.
Thanks a lot for your explanation, view and questions! I really appreciate and like to respond and will try to answer one by one: 1.) Purpose & missions: I designed the list with the idea of a multi-purpose team - any mission should be playable. I know a specalized team will always be more efficient, but the idea was to create an army which i can learn to use and play a lot. I think this all-in-one generic list is the weakest point but makes it very powerful and interesting at the same time - but im a bloody rookie :) 2.) Orc hackers: Hacking abilities in the frontline, while beeing able to get a hit and capable of fighting. 3.) Obvious choice for LT I agree, it is to obvious i thought it would be safe enough because he will be „safe“ in the backline and that the HMG orc in the second group could also be a LT in the eye of my opponent. Group1, yes you‘re right - in bigger Games (200-300), they should be the order battery and a core link. The idea is to keep them „safe“ on a building in the backline and use the buffed Sniper very long range. The aditional ORC Hacker brings his possibilities also from distance while using the repaeter drones in the front. The aditional specialist is for backup and or 100 Point Games. In a small Game (100) the play would obviously be different. Group 2, yes again it is an aggressive Haris with the specialist for any missions. Group 3, was also designed to be aggressive (fast forward deploy) and to block the way (mines) and bind enemy forces. Group 4, yes it should be the speedy attack pieces and repeater so that i will have hacking in the frontline.
The Orc hacker only has WIP 12, BTS3 and cost 34 points, so, he is one of the worst hackers in Infinity Winterforce's best unit is the Karhu. They have everything you need: specialists, firepower, mobility, a relative low cost and, most importantly, they are wildcards. Try to fit it into your lists.
Unfortunately in SWF the Lt is always obvious In every game i played, my opponent alway knew what troop was the LT. Not the exact model(unless last game but i had only one model that could was LT) but is something easily finded
thanks, i already was playing around with the Karhu guys - yes indeed they have pretty nice stats and abilities!
I think more or less this is what most of us do when trying to build list for some games. We take some base and we do as many iterations placing or replacing whatever profiles like or dislike us, so it is a good approach. Really suitable for most sectorials. Winterforce isn't an exception. About some comments... Winterforce it will have allways an obvious Lt, yes, we have several options, but they will be "hidden" as much as we can or it will be a little agressive, so, not so obvious but in danger, pretty much the same :P What I want to say is: "don't worry about this particular issue". Probably you will have a lot of friends to protect your Lt so, if someone were capable of kill your Lt, probably that means you had suffered a lot of casualties, so, loss of Lt will be probably your last concern. If you are triying to build a list for as many missions as you can I adivice you to look carefully "Quinn", it provides visor (level 1, yes), mir range weapon, marksman rifle (shock) and too Forward Observer. It is a character, so he can fullfill objetives with the veteran trait as requisite. It is too wildcard. Nokkens, minelayers have mostly a defensive reason, I'm more of Locust + wildparrot for that role. They are more dangerous for a wider spectrum of enemy profiles, and a little cheaper. Plus, you can try to do the infiltration roll. Whatever when playing Winterforce don't forget waht does strength the sectorial is the flexibility to form fireteam, core or haris. If you choose carefully you will have the entire match the fireteam you need to do the objetive you want that turn. Best regards
Thanks again for your great input and ideas, i really appreciate and meanwhile im changing and iterating the list… my take aways and ideas are: 1. the obvious Lieutenant-problem can not be fixed but optimized and i will not try to overfullfill. So I will put an LT-Like model in 2 different groups. 2. the generic all-purpose can be achieved by using more generic / multi-ability with a wider spectrum of „use case“ for example with models like "Quinn", „Locust“, Orc-Hacker etc. 3. the Fireteam Core & Harris is a very powerfull and easy implemented option which can be implemented while using groups in the army builder. Quin and Orc will support that. 4. Think twice about the ability / abilities you want (for example hacker) and the options and costs. The Orc Hacker isnt the best hacker, but has firepower, fireteam and armor for example. 5. the sniper(s) in the backline will get very powerfull if: - Part of Fire Team Core - Forward Observer in front- or support line - marksmanship & multispec visor available feel free to comment and ask or disagree :) Im looking forward to your answers…
For Question 4, please keep this in mind: To me, the Strengths of an Orc is their BS, PH, and ARM. By making it a Hacker, you add a new vector that allows it to be attacked against its weakest points (WILL and BTS). It is one of the best targets for a Killer Hacker Device, especially if is through a repeater. As an Haqqislam player, it is SIGNIFICANTLY easier for me to kill a ORC hacker than a Normal Orc. If I am using Dice Calculator correctly, I have 76% chance to cause 1+ wounds and 39% chance to cause 2+ wounds with a Barid. That is much better than anything I could do with shooting. EDIT: If you really want an HI Specialist in Winterforce, you could look into a Knight of Justice FO or Knight Hospitaller Doctor. They are more survivable and have good stats.
I knew it!! I forgot about the hacker issue. @Brokenwolf did a really good analysis about the ORC +Hacker profile... To me, as a general rule in Winterforce, don't try to put a hacker in your list, not even a killer hacker one, because all of them, unfortunately, sucks or are really expensive. As @Brokenwolf said, if you need someone who can push buttons, you can find others options, the hospitaller doctor can do "duo" with a Justice K, for example, in order to avoid the frenzy. If for some reason --> mission parameters (highly classified, contrameassures and maybe eraser...) you need a hacker, look at Justice K hacker profile. Yes, it is expensive but PB9 should do the trick + stealth... Or go for the "cheaper" one "nokken killer hacker", but keep in mind if you aren't the first players, probably, the rival could find a way to kill the nokken if you left him too forward. If the mission don't need the inclusion of hackers from the score point of view, choose others options, even when the hackers has the mission bonus. Of course, if you want to try the ORC hacker, please, don't feel discouraged. It were possible that in your "local game enviroment" the "simple panoceanic HI" could do a great job. Sometimes we forget, when we write here, about how what other players play around us changes too much how some profiles are better or worse on the board.
This is my biggest problem with SWF. It's just Karhu and friends. There's not a lot else going on for it them. :(
yes, as i proceeded with army building and advanced in understanding rules and game mechanics it really seems as if Winterforce isnt a real option to use hackers, neither realy great for buffed snipers… NeoTerra for example can use the Deva Hacker and in addition to that Bolt-Snipers with Visor & Marksmanship… maybee i will give it a retry with NeoTerra :)
*sad Gunnar noises* ... but yeah, it feels like SWF is the "Vanilla, but fireteams" sectorial of PanO. Much like White Banner or Kosmoflot, it feels like a bunch of the faction's best/most iconic stuff thrown together and given fireteam rules. I wish they'd lean more into the "Space Viking" theme. As much as I think they're available to too many factions already, maybe even throw some Varangians in there. Yeah, yeah, I know, Smoke in PanO would be Heresy, but honestly? SWF doesn't have the high-BS MSV units (the best is the Nisse, who can't wildcard and are an expensive Core) to abuse it like the rest of PanO, and without SOMETHING up their sleeve, you're stuck relying on the one standout model (the Karhu) to do all your heavy lifting.
Yeah, after about three tournaments worth of SWF, I decided if I'm gonna do anything with those models, it's gonna be as White Co. No Jotums for me. :(
Thanks again for your feedback! I proceeded with the input and found out that with Neoterran another sectorial which works better for the idea of hackers and sniper turett - you find my post here. Anyway i will work and update this list and post as soon it is worth it ;)
It is pretty much the same for a lot of sectorials in the game. Only that it looks like "Winterforce" haven't other options and the rest of sectoriales it does instead. But right now if we play for example "ASA" we will see almost for sure one baghmari snipper or one HMG, maybe both. Same if we play Varuna, the Kamau snipper will be there. OM pretty much become Sepulcre AP HMG + Teuton NCO and friends... We can analize a lot of list and always we will see some "patterns" or the "dependency" for some profiles, but I don't know the reason why this looks like a problem in Winterforce but iit is not in others. Please, don't forget that we play with 10-15 models per list, so, if we change a couple how they works could be really different. So true... probably winterforce will be the worst in whole Pano if we talk about "hackers" :/ Maybe it will be they remains true to the Panoideals... push the button when nobody else can do it!! XD Gunnar I think is Ok, if CB place the varengos in more sectorials they probably become the most sprayed profile in the entire game. About the smoke, maybe Winter it would be a good place to put in, but only in a profile "winter only". This probably had made the trick with the nisses. But I think the problem with the nisses and others options is the lack of Lt options or the ones with SWC cost. Nisse LT 1 SWC... Really CB? Really? This almost force us to play Uma... which forces us to play the Fusilier Lt instead. What models do you have problems to play? I think in winterforce are place for a lot of profiles from every kind but not for all of them in the same list. You can play Vargar, but not 5 of them. You can play Nisse but not 5 of them, etc. If you want to play to "hack" something I use this list or a kind of, pretty much always with Justice K. in Winterfoce. Too you could take a look on Acontecimento, you can align there Scylla, probably one of the best hackers in game right now (a little expensive...) and you can put too Nagas. All Aleph troups, but the best are in Acontecimento ;) Spoiler: OneHackerMan ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GRUPO 1 10 1 KARHU Feuerbach(+1R), Minas AP / Pistola, Arma CC. (1.5 | 35) NISSE Fusil de Francotirador MULTI / Pistola, Arma CC. (1.5 | 33) CABALLERO DE JUSTICIA (Hacker, Disp. Hacker) Fusil Combi, Cargas-D ( ) / Pistola Pesada, Arma CC DA. (0.5 | 46) MAQUINISTA WinterFor (Mimetismo [-3], Terreno [Total]) Fusil Combi, Cargas-D ( | GizmoKit) / Pistola, Arma CC. (0 | 18) AGNES Subfusil, Nanopulser / Pistola, Arma CC. (0 | 14) QUINN Fusil de Precisión Shock, Pulso Flash / Pistola, Arma CC. (0 | 23) GUNNAR Fusil MULTI(+1 Daño), Chain-colt / Pistola, Trench-Hammer, Arma CC Shock. (0 | 34) VARG Spitfire / Pistola, Arma CC. (1.5 | 29) FUSILERO (Teniente) Fusil Combi / Pistola, Arma CC. (0 | 10) FUSILERO (Sanitario) Fusil Combi ( | MediKit) / Pistola, Arma CC. (0 | 12) GRUPO 2 4 BULLETEER Spitfire / Arma CC PARA(-3). (1 | 23) FUGAZI DRONBOT Pulso Flash / Arma CC PARA(-3). (0 | 7) FUGAZI DRONBOT Pulso Flash / Arma CC PARA(-3). (0 | 7) FUGAZI DRONBOT Pulso Flash / Arma CC PARA(-3). (0 | 7) 6 CAP | 298 Puntos Abrir en Infinity Army
I suppose it's just my TAG obsession talking, but to me this looks like it would be pretty fun to play: Firepower ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 9 1 KARHU Feuerbach(+1B), AP Mines / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 35) FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 10) FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 10) FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 10) FUSILIER (Paramedic) Combi Rifle ( | MediKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 12) FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7) FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7) NØKK (Forward Observer) Boarding Shotgun, Panzerfaust, Flash Pulse / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 25) LIANG KAI Chain Rifle, Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse / Pistol, EXP CC Weapon. (0 | 21) GROUP 2 5 1 FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7) JOTUM (Lieutenant) MULTI Heavy Machine Gun, Heavy Flamethrower, Panzerfaust / AP CC Weapon. (2.5 | 87) CRABBOT Flash Pulse / CC Weapon. (0 | 0) NØKK (Forward Observer) Boarding Shotgun, Panzerfaust, Flash Pulse / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 25) NØKK (Forward Observer) Boarding Shotgun, Panzerfaust, Flash Pulse / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 25) MACHINIST Combi Rifle, D-Charges ( | GizmoKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 15) PALBOT PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3) 4 SWC | 299 Points Open in Infinity Army Still, I have to agree that I'd rather play SAA or NCA.
Looks interesting! Never played Tag yet. I always feel bad not using all SWC points in an army list… what do you think?
Yeah, if I was more familiar with Winterfor, I might have found a way to use all the SWC. The list definitely relies heavily on the Jotum and Karhu for all its firepower. Lose the Jotum and the whole thing falls apart, which isn't ideal. But when it works, it'll be a lot of fun watching anything that sticks its head up evaporate. It's also only 14 troops, which I don't like, but I felt it needed all those Nokken for button-pushing. Dropping to two Nokken to get it to 15 troops would be worth considering. All in all it's just something I threw together :-)
