So I think I know how this works, but wanted to make sure. I think silent trumps Sixth sense. In each of these cases, the active trooper is using a weapon with silent out of lof of the reactive target who has Sixth sense (4 man link or w/e): 1) what happens if a model is outside of 8 inches and shoots? I assume the reactive trooper can shot back/dodge only if they survive the active troopers active (like a buffed up berserk) 2) is within 8 and shoots as first short skill the idle as second. Result being the active trooper cannot declare aro until after they survive the attack and then they can shoot/dodge as desired. 3) Active trooper is within 8 and declares move+shoot. I think reactive trooper is allowed to declare dodge in reaction to the move but then is not allowed to perform the action due to silent. Unsure if the model is required to perform dodge after the shot is resolved or is allowed to declare shoot instead, assuming he survives the attack. That said I think this is how it works and does make camo silent weapons extremely capable weapons.
Actually, I think in the third case the target may declare dodge without issue from the silent rule as it only seems to impact aro declaration and not aro being performed.
Oh god, Silent is bad enough without Sixth Sense thrown in there: https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/silent.39185/ Anyway, I'd say if the active trooper moves inside ZoC and shoots with her bow, Silent prevents the Sixth Sense reactive trooper from AROing to the BS Attack, but the trooper can ARO normally to the Move, so if they Dodge it will make the roll F2F. (i.e. I agree with your second post). If shooting from outside ZoC, I'd say that SS would allow the target to shoot back, since Silent only stops them from declaring Dodge or using the Alert rule.
Was thinking that but the sentence says: *Additionally, enemies without LoF in whose Zone of Control the Attack took place or was declared cannot declare AROs or apply the Alert rule unless the target survives the Attack. This means that these enemies must delay their ARO declaration until after the Attack is resolved* (emphasis added and I'm bad at quoting the rules on phone so sorry :) Which seems that all aros must be delayed until after the attack is resolved if shot was declared first / outside zoc.
I guess the question is whether the requirement to delay AROs applies to any ARO against the active trooper, or only to AROs against the Short Skill that has the Silent label. I lean towards the latter, so the active trooper's other Short Skill would allow the SS trooper to ARO immediately. But yeah, the rule doesn't actually say either way. If it applies to the whole order, then we get a weird interaction depending on whether the active trooper declares move-shoot or shoot-move: - A declares Move, R (with SS) declares Dodge, A declares BS Attack (with bow). R has already declared Dodge, so the Silent prohibition kicks in too late and the Dodge declaration goes through, making a F2F roll. - A declares BS attack. R cannot ARO. A declares Move. R still can't ARO because the use of Silent has banned AROs for the whole order. No F2F roll. Which seems like the less likely intended rule to me, but who knows! Silent is a mess.
Yup, that pretty much sums it up. And I got no idea which is correct. I am of personal opinion that it holds for the entire order so option 2 makes sense to me, but if the result was option 1 that also makes sense reading the rule.
Some folks were discussing this on discord today. KOJ pointed out that this interaction probably doesn't work this way. Sixth sense would give the target LoF when the BS attack was declared. Silent requires you to be outside LoF. So, the target could shoot back or dodge as usual. Sixth Sense rule: Allows the user to respond to Attacks (and only Attacks) directed at them by enemies outside their LoF. For the purposes of drawing Line of Fire to the attackers, the user has a 360˚ LoF arc, and if they are in Engaged State, they can draw LoF to attackers outside their Close Combat. Edit: thinking about this more, the target can probably always dodge as a FtF, even in ZoC because they're have LoF once you declare the attack. You can still idle + Shoot to force the dodge, but I don't think the dodge would be delayed.
Hmm, more i am thinking about it, the better your reasoning is and more the alternatives are convoluted. I think you are correct. Sixth sense gives LoF after an attack against the model is declared. The wording "make an attack out of LoF" that silent requires is only clean if it means that "declares an attack and stays outside of LoF". Because if it just means "declare an attack while currently outside LoF" the rules can end up with some weird outcomes. Such as a camo marker, walk outside of Lof, enemy declare delay, and then shoot a silent weapon and reactive player gets no aro.
Edited out a mistake. Does anyone know if Silent works in ARO, should a target present itself with the second half of its order?
It shouldn't. Active turn units don't really "react" with Dodge and attacking them from out of LOF is difficult.
