1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Are you new to Spiral Corps or new to Infinity? Looking for a new sectorial? Read here first!

Discussion in 'Spiral Corps' started by meikyoushisui, Oct 12, 2020.

  1. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2017
    Messages:
    1,803
    Likes Received:
    2,804
    Hey everyone, now that N4 has been out a while, I'm looking for some feedback. After looking at what people are actually taking and playing, I'm thinking of making the following changes:

    • Igao and Diplomatic Delegate pushed up to Tier 2
    • Kauuri box and Helot box pushed down to a new tier between the current Tier 2 and Tier 3, joined by the Kriigel blister
    • Anaconda added alongside current Tier 3 (current Tier 4?)
    • Everything else pushed down a Tier to fit the new Tier.
    Opinions? The addition of Mirrorball to the Igao has made it indispensable, but Helots have dropped from 2-3 per list to 0-1 in most cases. Kauuri seem to have niche application in the beefy boye triads with their B3 paramedic rolls, but not as much outside of that.
     
    infyrana likes this.
  2. Stripless

    Stripless New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2019
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    Great Write up! I think you should add some 150/200/300 pts list as an example what to get and what to expect from Spiral.
     
  3. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Antipodean midwit

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2018
    Messages:
    2,048
    Likes Received:
    4,191
    Just as an aside, I'd be keen to hear more about your thoughts on this one.
     
  4. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2017
    Messages:
    1,803
    Likes Received:
    2,804
    I apologize for my comment being long-winded, but I feel like just explaining the value I see in the Igao isn't going to make as much sense without explaining some underlying assumptions in how I play Spiral Corps.

    My general approach is two triads (a Tricore Triad and an Auxiliar Triad) and an Impersonator in Combat Group 1, and a Reex Special Triad (usually with my Lieutenant) and a Clipso FO in Combat Group 2. I'm not completely dedicated to the skeleton, but I've found it's the best way to make sure I can leverage the Tricore both with the MSV2 Sniper and with the Draal AP MMR.

    This leaves me about 100 points and 5 slots for a second Impersonator, an additional triadable piece in G1, the Diplomatic Delegate, Helots if I want them, the Igao, a Kauuri, and anything unusual that the mission demands (Aelis, Kumotail, Kosuil, Monstrucker).

    If I opt for an Igao, it usually ends up in Group 1, because that way I have Mirrorball access in both Combat Groups. Of course, that all flexes a lot depending on the mission, but that's a general outline of how I'm approaching lists for most missions.

    So for my general approach, the Igao is giving me new options or redundancy in how I can approach three big problems.

    1) How can I deal with powerful MSV2 AROs on relatively open tables?

    This is probably the biggest reason I feel like the Igao is in such a better place now. Being able to start a Mirrorball halfway up the table or putting the template 40 inches up the table on your second order is such a huge benefit for dealing with the Atalantas, Kamaus, and even those buffed MSV1 AROs (especially the doubly-buffed ones like Bolts and Grenzers). Tiny aside, I have already expressed my worry about the direction the game is moving in terms of firepower (though I do have a healthy sense of skepticism for how big the changes will be) but I can't help but feel I might be a bit hasty in my decision to jump to Eclipse as a one-size-fits-all for the solution.

    We do have two other Troopers that I feel like can solve these problems:
    The Kiuutan/Jaan/Greif can usually get on top of these pieces (and frequently in more efficient ways), or at least take away their Fireteam bonuses by picking off weak links.
    The Kriigel can block LoF with its own Mirrorball, but the Kriigel can usually only cover one lane from a given ARO piece at a time.

    So the Igao finds a nice middle ground between these pieces -- it can still close distances if it has to, but it starts further up the table where you can pinpoint an ARO piece and basically remove it from the game for a turn. Tiny aside, I wonder if feeling this way comes at least somewhat from originally being a pre-Uprising JSA player, where pinpointing smoke on specific ARO pieces was one of the easiest ways to make sure I could leave my DZ.

    2) How can I deal with difficult to crack targets?

    It's really rare that I am carrying around any reliable K1. The Reex is just too unreliable to me at BS11 (I would love Tricore to be an option in that Triad!), the Kosuil is weird, and I need an overwhelmingly strong reason to consider Aelis just beyond K1. Our other options to deal with these targets are:
    Draal AP Marksman Rifle is the really obvious choice.
    Kiuutan with E/M Mines is viable-ish but if you're close enough to be relying on an SMG and mine tricks for more than one attempt, you're close enough to get Heavy Flamethrowered.

    The DAM buff to Igao makes them a really viable choice for this, IMO. On average, they'll be forcing about two DAM15 saves per order, which is give or take going to make them about as efficient as an HMG, which matters a lot given Spiral Corp's poor access to that type of firepower. There's a larger initial investment to get your Igao to the thing you need it to kill, but once it is there, you don't have to worry nearly as much about DTWs or the like.

    There's also the niche benefit in the Igao in that you can throw out a Mirrorball while you're already in a Mirrorball when making your approach. (Admission, I haven't had a chance to try this yet.) With enough orders, there isn't almost anything that an Igao won't get to eventually.

    3) How does Spiral Corps take objectives?

    I know this probably goes without saying, but I think the playerbase sometimes has a tendency to gloss over how powerful Eclipse ammunition is for taking objectives without needing to actually deal with the things covering them. A Clipso in a Mirrorball pushing the button on order 2-3 is relatively speaking one of the safest troopers that could be on a table, because the only potential threat to them is a mine / jammer. This is again, something a Kriigel can do, but an Igao can start in a position ready to do it.

    So I guess those are the major areas where I see the Igao looking up a lot. With regards to the "should I buy this" tier placement, I think it also has a lot to do with how I feel the value of Helots and Kauuri has dropped with the 15 troop limit / nerfs.
     
  5. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Antipodean midwit

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2018
    Messages:
    2,048
    Likes Received:
    4,191
    meikyoushisui likes this.
  6. Goorie

    Goorie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2019
    Messages:
    79
    Likes Received:
    63
    meikyoushisui likes this.
  7. Spellbreaker90

    Spellbreaker90 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2018
    Messages:
    186
    Likes Received:
    145
    Hi guys, I have the starter SC army box and I have made just 1 game in N4 and more in N3.
    What I found hard with SC is surving going second. The triad with Taagma Sniper is costly in SWC and usually is not so hard for the opponent to overcome it. Helot seems to have gone down in utility. We have very few minelayers to stop enemy advance.
    I found myself relying on Impersonator a lot more than in N3 when I theorycraft a list.

    am I wrong ?
     
    #27 Spellbreaker90, Dec 27, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2020
    deakolt likes this.
  8. Soul Hunter

    Soul Hunter Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2020
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    8
    In my opinion that's a problem many armies have in N4 because the game has become deadlier in the new edition and anything but the toughest models will usually die if put on ARO duty.
    Spiral has some good/mediocre ways to handle this problem in my experience:

    -Single Helots are still good because they are expendable units (just like daylami but worse). Just not as OP or spamable as before.
    -A Well placed Draal or Greif put into Suppressive fire via a command token. A suppressing Draal is really hard to deal with, or one that is in a tri-core triad but loosing him would be quite a disaster, while the Greif is very cheap and still not that easy to overcome in SF.
    -The humble Clipsos either with a Boarding Shotgun/Sniper Rifle hitting out of hidden Deployment or as simple Minelayer. (Shame that they are AVA 2 only)


    Edit: Armand or a Brawler Core Link with HRL and MSV Sniper could be ok too, but I have not played those units yet.

    Edit Number 2: I actually meant that the Draal is either linked or in suppressive fire but somehow just wrote it wrong sorry.
     
    #28 Soul Hunter, Dec 27, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2020
    deakolt likes this.
  9. infyrana

    infyrana Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2019
    Messages:
    465
    Likes Received:
    295
    @meikyoushisui Has your original post had many changes since last edited? I might start looking into Spiral Corps for later this year and thought of making some early savings to purchase the following - Spiral Corps Army box, Neema and the Hatail spec ops for Kaeltar CoC proxy, then maybe follow it up with some choices from - Igao, Greif, Kriigel, Kosuil and Taagma blisters - any thoughts please?
     
    meikyoushisui likes this.
  10. Soul Hunter

    Soul Hunter Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2020
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    8
    Your purchase list looks totally fine to me. The only thing you should really consider are some Chaksa Auxiliars or at least some models that you can use as proxies for them. I don't think you will need the Kosuil very often in Spiral but hey if you like the model go for it.
     
    #30 Soul Hunter, Jan 5, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2021
    infyrana likes this.
  11. Murrdox

    Murrdox New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2018
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    1
    This a great thread and SUPER helpful. I picked up the Spiral Corps box last year, but I did not get a chance to play much Infinity AT ALL in 2020. My friends and I just had our first game of N4 last week, where I played what will hopefully be my last game with my much-loved Yu Jing for a awhile. I'm really in love with the idea of Spiral Corps but I am VERY intimidated at getting into them. None of my friends play Tohaa so I've never seen them on the battlefield. The models are incredible though, and I'm looking forward to painting something that is not orange combat armor.

    So far what I have purchased:
    Spiral Corps box set
    Rasail Boarding Team
    Kerail Preceptors
    Clipsos - Sniper Rifle
    Taagma Schemer - Sniper Rifle

    I'm looking at what I should be adding... so far I think my first priorities are the Helots box set and the Kaeltar Specialists? I'm also thinking about Neema Saatar, but I might just proxy her. Having never played Tohaa, or seen them played, and the fact that we have so few opportunities to get together to play Infinity these days makes for hard decisions! It's hard to know what units are "good". I've got most of the models I own assembled, but I know I need a few more things to make a really good army list.
     
    meikyoushisui likes this.
  12. melkiach

    melkiach PheroBoosted

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    918
    Likes Received:
    999
    @Murrdox Your first priorities are completely correct!

    also pick an eye to the Igao, good profile, awesome miniature ;)
     
  13. Oni

    Oni Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2018
    Messages:
    190
    Likes Received:
    511
    The list of stuff you got looks good.
    Neema Sataar ist good to, but before Helots i would rather buy the Kaauri box. But that is only my personal preference.

    Further stuff that could be interesting would be the Chacksa box. Together with the Kaauri they are kind of the Spiral Cheerleaders and good Dropzone defenders.

    +1 for the Igao, model and rulewise very good.

    Also consider the Kriigel, really nice model and good rules. Unfortunately not as strong as it used to be, as the phero booster wont get any boni from Triads anymore.
     
  14. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2017
    Messages:
    1,803
    Likes Received:
    2,804
    @infyrana That looks fine to me! My thoughts haven't changed significantly since I wrote this except as mentioned above in November.
     
    infyrana likes this.
  15. Angry Clown

    Angry Clown Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2018
    Messages:
    348
    Likes Received:
    242
    as much as i think about spiral i keep on loving solo units more than the triads and any other link.
    draal,clipso,impersonaters,igao,grief,chaksas,diplomat,helots .. all are great. but the links are all meh.
     
    The Holy Knight and Delta57Dash like this.
  16. Delta57Dash

    Delta57Dash Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2020
    Messages:
    690
    Likes Received:
    1,246
    That's because, unlike Tohaa, powerful Triads aren't the main draw of Spiral.

    I mean Draal + Tri-Core is one hell of a gunfighting link, and I noticed you left out both the Taagma schemers (who have the extremely efficient Snipers + 2 Chaksa link) and Kriigel (who can likewise form a link with 2 Reex).

    Spiral can't run Triads with the same level of power or versatility as Tohaa, but in exchange they get very efficient links which lets you beef up the rest of your squad without sacrificing defensive options. It's what lets those solo units like the Kiiutaan, Igao, and Clipsos shine. A smoke Kriigel + 2 Reex and a Taagma Sniper + 2 Chaksa clocks in at a mere NINETY points and gives you a solid chunk of defenders for your Deployment Zone along with the Smoke + MSV2 Sniper trick. You've got 210 points to spend on the remaining 9 orders, an average of over 23 points per model, which really frees up some crazy options. And if you want to go even crazier you've got options like the Delegate or Helots to even further pad out your list.
     
  17. Leviathan

    Leviathan Hungry Caliban

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2018
    Messages:
    939
    Likes Received:
    937
    Have people tested the special triads much?
    Kriigel + 2 Reex, Kiel-San + 2 Kaauri?

    Curious how they've gone for people, because on paper they're tempting as low-cost toolbox squads go.
     
  18. Soul Hunter

    Soul Hunter Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2020
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    8
    I really liked the Kiel-San + 2 Kaauri Triad (or 1 Kaauri + Aelis Keesan). It‘s a great offensive tool, resilient and has some specialists.

    The Reex + Kriigel Triad has really disappointed me so far whenever i used them, maybe i‘m just bad at playing them because i see them beeing used fairly often but i like to stick my SGL Kriigel into other triads rather than let him go with Reex only.

    I should note that i rarely run more than two Triads though, just one for offensive actions and a defensive one. (MSV2 Sniper + Chaksa for Example because thats a great Triad)
    Sometimes i run a third one with flexible Specialists or a backup Draal but Spiral has so much cool and strong single model units that i don't feel the need to max out on Triads.
     
    #38 Soul Hunter, Feb 2, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2021
    Leviathan likes this.
  19. Delta57Dash

    Delta57Dash Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2020
    Messages:
    690
    Likes Received:
    1,246
    SGL Kriigel Lt + 2 barebones Reex make for a cheap, decent defensive triad that can watch your DZ or lob smoke onto your Taagma Sniper for easy smoke tricks.

    Kiel-Saan I often find wants to go waaaaay harder and faster than his fireteam does so he makes more sense to me as a solo piece.

    That said the Reex triad is definitely weaker than the Taagma+Chaksa one, and sometimes I prefer having that Kriigel in the Tri-Core for Sixth Sense Pheromone attacks.
     
    Leviathan likes this.
  20. Jayward

    Jayward Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2021
    Messages:
    66
    Likes Received:
    64
    Well hello there everyone! New to Infinity, new to Spiral Corps, and this seemed like the place to come and ask a bunch of newbie questions. (Apologies if a 6-month necro is poor form, but I figured since it’s only just over half way down the first page of topics it was probably okay!)

    I bought the Army Box, bought the Viral Sniper and some Chaksa Auxiliars, and played a couple of 150pt teaching games against some Ariadna. Fun times had all round, I’m hooked on the game and the faction, and so I’m looking to my next purchases. (Which will be an Igao, because it looks great and apparently is great)

    In my first game the undisputed stars of the show were the Clipsos and the Kiiutan Imposter; love their shenanigans. But I notice they’re not on this list; do people only generally run one of these? If so, what am I missing about them because they seem great.

    As a follow on from that, scouring the forums and watching some battle reports gives me the impression that the Forward Observer Clipsos is favoured; how do people feel about the Boarding Shotgun one? From my admittedly limited experience it seems like being able to spring out and shoot AP shots at an enemy who is likely to be on -9 to hit you would be fantastic.

    The Draal also seem to just be better than everything else; I really like the look of Dazers. I’m guessing these aren’t on the list because you get 2 in the box anyway.

    As a meta question, how useful is healing? I’m looking at the Kumotail, Kaauri Paramedic, and Kosuil. In the 150pt games there were a couple of opportunities to heal/repair something, but even if I had something to heal them I can’t work out if that’s worth spending an order on. I guess there would be more opportunities at 300pts?

    And final question for now; I’m not looking to play in tournaments and just want to be able to fight the good fight at the gaming club. So when people say that fantastic looking models like the Longarms are utter trash, is that from the point of view of bleeding-edge competitiveness or is there some deep and fundamental flaw with them I’m not seeing? Can they (and other less popular choices) be made to work, or would I be hamstringing myself even at less competitive levels?

    Thanks in advance for any help; I’m sure I’ll have more questions as I play more games!
     
  • About Us

    We are a company founded in 2001 in Cangas (Spain), and devoted to design and manufacture games and figures. Our main product, Infinity the Game, was born with the ambition to satisfy the most demanding audience, offering the best quality.

     

    Why are we here?

     

    Because we are, first and foremost, players.

  • Quick Navigation

    Open the Quick Navigation