This skill seems a bit weird, considering its name and previous function. How correct are these two statements? A: A unit with Bioimmunity is not immune to the effects of Shock Ammo. (Relevant to Muyibs and Zhanying) B: A unit with Bioimmunity can choose to save using their superior BTS value against an EXP attack.
So I take it that a Zhanying is now vulnerable to shock and can use their BTS to protect against a missile launcher, then.
Yeah, but I'm asking because this doesn't match the description of "ability to shrug off damage from biological or toxic weapons" and it doesn't seem to be applied to units quite in that way Oh boy, that's quite something. ARM becomes 0 so I'll just save using my BTS
Yeah it probably could've used a new name like adaptive armour or even something generic like toughness.
As it happens, we did have one, though I can't find it anymore. Might be someone linked a picture to it from Facebook or similar. I do think it was Helllois confirming that you can use Bioimmunity to dodge ammo effects from AP Ammo by saving on ARM or BTS that the weapon isn't targeting. It is therefore very logical that using Bioimmunity to save on BTS to dodge the ARM=0 effect of Monofilament is 100% a feature and not a bug.
We also have confirmation from ijw here: https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/dissapointing-units.37900/page-3#post-367569
Uh wow, I always understood that rule as "search & replace ARM <-> BTS everywhere in the description of weapons like you choose". And I dislike it strongly as "Bio" Immunity has no logical bond with AP ammo. Therefore I can imagine that this question has to be answered a lot by TO in the future. But, it is as it is. I'll accept that ruling.
I think bioimmunity should have been renamed in the transition, the effects and ability to avoid k1,mono,ap, e/m is fine. It just doesn't have anything to do with bioimmunity, maybe something like Immunity (Adaptive) would have been better. Some sort of Immunity (X).
I keep coming back to this skill all the time. Where exactly does it state in the rules that AP is tied to the ARM or BTS save? Every sentence always talks about ARM or BTS: --- ARMOR-PIERCING (AP) AMMUNITION ROLL ► After a successful attack using AP Ammunition, the target must make a Saving Roll per impact suffered, using half his ARM or BTS value (ARM/2 or BTS/2) as specified by the weapon being used. EFFECTS ► AP Ammunition reduces the ARM or BTS value of its target to half of its original value, rounding up. Consequently, any ARM or BTS above 0 cannot be reduced below 1. ► Each Saving Roll failed against AP Ammunition causes the target to lose one point from his Wounds/STR Attribute. ► Critical hits with AP Ammunition cause the targets to make an additional Saving Roll, applying their halved ARM or BTS value. So if this should be true, with the same argument you could also say that models Bioimmunity are basically Shock Immune, because "Shock is tied to the ARM save and I use BTS, so you have no Shock anymore?" PLEASE rename or rewrite this skill to make the intention more clear. It's super aweful right now imho. This is the only skill that leaves some bad Gotcha! taste in the mouth of players that don't read this forum all the time.
You're in N3 mindset. What stat you save against is a function of the weapon in N4, not the ammo (mostly). Shock doesn't mention ARM it just refers to a failed save.
Good call. I honestly try to find the right page to point people to. Do you have any rules page for me? the weapons chart looks quite the same for the sake of X is bound to Y in respect to AP or Shock: i.e. SUBMACHINE GUN +3 0 -3 -6 13 3 AP/SHOCK ARM SUPPRESSIVE FIRE So this could be read like Shock is bound to ARM on SMGs, so if I switch to BTS with BioImmunity I can ignore Shock?
no, what it is meaning is that this gun fires against arm saves. look at a viral weapon (for instance dart's viral bow), it will show da+ap bts, which means the viral bow shoots ap rounds with 2 saves, but you need to roll against bts. bio immunity states the user can choose bts or arms, but da + ap will remain, so they can make viral be: da+ap arms for instance.
yeah, I get that. That would be my ruling too. But there was an argument that you can ignore i.e. the AP part of that because it is "bound to the ARM" and if you choose BTS, you can ignore the AP. And I can't find any proof besides this comment from IJW in the listed thread above that Hellois mentioned something somewhere. I don't wont to tell new players that there is a forum thread, where someone mentioned something somewhere and these guys are cool, thats why its ruled that way. I want to have a rules page. (K1 and Mono are clear btw)
The ruling is here: https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/dissapointing-units.37900/page-3#post-367569 There aren't any rules pages yet, the wiki hasn't been updated to N4. But if it follows the same format as the N3 wiki, this ruling won't be included in the wiki, unless it ends up in a FAQ.
