Apparently the Tankhunter got confirmed, this is probably real for now. IJW did bring up a good point about the Hacking though; Oblivion or Gotcha on a standard device getting unopposed shots or a Gun getting unopposed shots is pretty big where applicable, as is a safe extra order under Tactical Window conditions. All this requires a scary amount of orders though, unless the N4 meta shakeup puts HI and TAGs in the midfield where these guys can reach them.
This is actually pretty cool mechanic, but again - nothing (literally nothing) an Intruder is not also capable of doing. Imho whereas Wildcats got extremely more expensive to access this trick, Intruder is a god and can do it too... so still Intruder FTW. Now I might actually use Intruder LT or even a Hacker more often. I wander if people would use Intruder if it dropped 11 points lost MSV 2 for MSV1, lost 1ARM, lost 1PH, lost Grenades, lost Camo. Got 6BTS :P
At least we will get new sculpts (for a unit that is rarely played :P) Maybe they release a box with 3 Wildcats plus another Grenzer xD
Except you don’t know how other units in CJC may have changed, or if there are any new units on tap like the Cheerkillers are new for TJC, or how Fireteams will have changed, nor how different units will interact with Tactical Window, etc., etc., etc. IJW is simply pointing out that in the absence of more information, could be more fruitful to think what this opens up, rather than bemoaning what we think it ought to have been.
But, but ... I already own the only profile that will sometimes be used ... No, seriously. That's a move beyond my comprehension. Even the pricetag is the same as for Grenzers. Weren't MI meant to become cheaper? I just don't get it. Sorry, I'm out.
Yes, you are right. If I see it positive, it seems they looked at the profiles more thoroughly than I thought. So, not only translating them to N4 but doing a revision. How someone can come to the conclusion to switch one hardly played unit for another hardly played unit is beyond my grasp, but ... I don't have to understand everything. For a short moment I thought maybe these are not Wildcats but the new Evaders. But still there is the puzzling fact, that MI were meant to become cheaper. Still the new Grenzcats cost the same as Grenzers. 1 point more or less. Yes, maybe Tunguska bought some upgrades to keep up with the new SOTA and sold the old Grenzer stuff to Corregidor so they can equip the Grenzcats, but then they still should become cheaper. Because it's not SOTA anymore. Regarding the other points: I think Tactical Window will have not much impact on Nomads or Corregidor. I checked my lists, I mostly used 17 units. Going down to 15 units is not that hard. And Fireteams won't change much in the beginning. Another problem. If this all sounds somewhat confusing ... yes, that's exactly the state of mind this is inducing.
Okay, everyone. The heretic has recanted his upbeat views and stopped frightening us with positive takes. We can return to our Greek chorus of doom and gloom. Seriously though, Corregidor has a solid MSVL1 option now instead of the MSVL2 Intruder crutch. That's worth something. Previously, the way Wildcats dealt with camo was by being flamethrower suicide pawns (or at least that's what I resorted to with my dice rolls). And as you mentioned, MSVL1 is huge now, because you can ARO with a Fireteam through smoke instead of sitting there like pumpkins.
Looking at Grenzers and Wildcats, yes, they look similar, but i think the main differences are in the specialists, Grenzers get BioVisor, Sensor and FO, Wildcats get Engineer and Hackers, Corregidor and Tunguska get one but not the other, wich i think is not that bad, also maybe they are like muyibs, elite wildcards to put on some other teams.
Guys the main difference is linkable smoke with an MSV that can see through smoke now. Something that has literally never been done before. Sorry Grenzers. Unless Lupe lost Wild, which is why we need the full picture. If she didn't I honestly think this will make a solid Haris with Lupe+KHD+Spitfire
As confirmed by Koni earlier today... Have Wildcats changed? Yes, they have. Saying they're 'now Grenzers' is just really bleeping lazy analysis. Grenzers aren't available in Corregidor anyway, they're in their own Sectorial with substantially worse Smoke availability. Grenzers don't have an NCO Spitfire. Grenzers don't have an HRL for medium-range templates. Grenzers don't have D-Charges, and their Anti-Material weapons aren't optimal at close range. Grenzers don't have Hackers (Killer and standard!). Grenzers don't all have Number 2, so are less robust in a Fireteam. Grenzers don't have Terrain (Total) and if you're using terrain rules, that difference matters in N4. Wildcats don't have any Sensors. Wildcats don't have any Biometric Visors (which are a lot more useful in N4). Wildcats don't have any longer range weapons (Missile Launchers and MULTI Sniper Rifles). Unit options matter, even if you're going to ignore profile-level Skills like Number 2 or Terrain. And we've got figures for Grenzer usage - in Tunguska they're taken more often than freaking Kriza Boracs! 40% of lists compared to 32%. So please don't tell me 'We already didn't use Grenzers for several years', when they're more popular than one of the Sectorial-defining units. Wildcats, for comparison, are in 27% of lists in their home Sectorial. Good luck finding anything from CB saying that all MI were meant to become cheaper. As far as I can tell, that's a forum thing.
We also have no idea if having multiple MSVL1s will confer an advantage im N4's Fireteam rules. Currently, Fireteams magically support the one MSVL2 Brawler sniper shoot at something none of them can see through smoke, or at a camo marker, with no penalties. Maybe there's something there that rewards multiple visors in a Fireteam. Maybe not - the multiple ARO is still great. As for Grenzers = Wildcats, the answer is that the best Grenzer in Vanilla is Knauf. But Knauf doesn't do the other stuff the other Grenzers do (and Sensor Grenzer is SAVAGE with Tri-Fire)...
Where is all that talk on "MI getting cheaper" coming from? Did Bostria or another CB representative really say that in one of the videos? Because all I can remember is "HI getting cheaper" from Bostria. Did I miss something? (Ninja'ed by IJW) :)
I am assuming you mean in Nomads, and if so, how is this any different than a Securitate team with Perseus and Grenzer in N4?
Some valid points, but do not forget: - Analysing list composition is nice but do not trust data without question the origins. Of course the Grenzer is taken a lot because it is the only MSV ARO source. That means not that it is loved but it is our only choice. - CB should not live in an ivory tower and look down on those "forum things". Those things are from part of the community, and are brought up for quite some time now. This is a hobby and people are only following for so long before losing interest. I have the impression that sectorials are getting more and more similar for the past years. Be brave and create unique experiences, players love to identify with their faction.
How do make MI more appealing? I've got it! Increase their cost 25% and make LI less appealing through order limitations and LI price increases! Perfect! I was really hoping Druze (and other MI) would get a price reduction to make them more useful. Now it feels like I'll still take the minimum amount to build a link for Brawlers and fill the list out with other things.
Sure, you can try to sugarcoat the profile-switch. But if I look at the pickrate on profile level, the Grenzer profiles used are the ones, Wildcats don't offer: Longrange ARO (ML, MSR) and Sensor. Spitfire wasn't used much (5 percent). Are the new Grenzer ... äh ... Wildcats Profiles bad? No. Is it a change of an existing unit? No. It's Grenzer made available to Corregidor. Instead it could have been wrapped up into some new options to Grenzers and made available to Corregidor only. Just like almost all sectorials of PanO seem to use Fusiliers. Yes, maybe I don't see every option possible right now. But the profile-change just doesn't look good for me. Nothing I would have hoped for. Nothing I can nod at and say "Yes, sounds plausible." But like I already said: Maybe that's just me and I don't have to understand everything.
I mean I don't think anyone is questioning that their new capacity has uses. I mentioned that well before IJW brought it up. The question is whether that capacity is niche enough and costs enough that they won't see table time. Given Wildcats don't have a deployment skill and it costs half an Algucaile per Wildcat you field on first blush it looks pretty pricey compared to what else you can get in N3 (e.g. a mixed Alguacile link or Riot Grrls). This is in an environment where MI and HI are supposed to be coming down in cost and the Sun Juan which was already a beast came down 5. I'd sure rather a Su Juan than 2 of these guys. Now it does depend on link options somewhat, as I also already mentioned. But if a few of them work ok in particular types of link, well you've got a few maybe viable profiles in the lot. And those are the ones that should have got these changes as an option. Cause then the rest gather dust. Mainly it makes me worry for the other long ignored hardly used mainly MI Nomad troops like Reverends, Prowlers, Sin Eaters, Moderators. Grenzers seem like they at least will have a couple profiles that sit well in a Securitate link now.
The data is from https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/2019-in-numbers-its-data-analysis.36359/ and appears to be universally regarded as trustable. I don't think I understand? Ah, you're talking about the idea that all MI were going to get cheaper? I can see what you mean, but the flipside is that expecting MI to get faster and go down in price and have their ARM matter more (and in this case get a bunch more gear) is just downright weird.
