Ok, I am getting confused by the Wildcard rule. Why should you be able to do this? I always thought, the requirement for forming this fireteam is up to 4 Jaguars (who can be replaced by a Wildcard) + Senor Massacre (who cannot be replaced by a Jaguar or a Wilcard). Is this correct or am I wrong? EDIT: Ok, found the thread about a similar example: https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/solved-valerya-gromoz-and-scarface-in-dbs.23373/
everyone is confused by the wildcard rule, hopefully it get revised along with "counts as". makes fireteam rules an absolute cluster to try and understand and makes them somewhat counter intuitive.
To be fair, Wildcard isn't the confusing rule. The confusing part is "what makes an X Fireteam?" So the question is "what makes a Massacre + Jaguar Special Fireteam Core?" A: The presence of either Massacre OR a Jaguar. Or, "what makes a Massacre + Jaguar Special Fireteam Haris?" A: the presence of a Massacre Haris profile. Equally, what makes an Alg + MB Special Fireteam Core? A: the presence of at least one but no more than 3 Algs OR the presence of at least one but no more than 2 MB/Tsyklons.
I'm struggling with a list for both firefight and show of force. The TAG part is definitely not easy for Corregidor! Here's what I've tried a few times. It's been... ok. The double hellcats with Jazz to spot their landing have been a highlight. However, the gecko isn't particularly impressive and it feels lacking a big gun to lead from my DZ. The pazerfaust jaguars look good on paper but in reality struggle to delay much in ARO and as a link team, they clump together and don't as good as they normally do at DZ defence. Here's attempt # 2 Rumble 2 ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 9 1 ALGUACIL Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) JAZZ FTO . (0.5 | 18) JAZZ Hacker Submachine Gun, Pitcher, Cybermine / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 18) MOBILE BRIGADA Missile Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 40) MOBILE BRIGADA Lieutenant Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 33) DAKTARI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14) IGUANA HMG, Heavy Flamethrower / . (2 | 75) IGUANA OPERATOR HMG / Pistol, Knife. () JAGUAR Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 10) JAGUAR Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 10) HELLCAT Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21) BANDIT Light Shotgun, Adhesive Launcher / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 22) GROUP 2 3 HELLCAT HMG, E/Mauler / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 31) TRANSDUCTOR ZOND Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) TRANSDUCTOR ZOND Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) 6 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army I've had to sacrifice the mid-field koalas but hopefully the brigada with daktari can suck up enough orders in ARO? I also hope the Iguana gives me a bit more punch shooting up the board. The bandit doesn't have enough points to be upgraded to KHD which is both good and bad. Bad because Jazz is on her own.. but good because hacker bandits sometimes get brainblasted while they're trying to stab someone.
TAG is the easy part, you use the Gecko and hold it reserve until you can run it on to the point while duo'd up with Lupe for smoke. Why is the KHD bandit trying to stab something while in hacking area of something else? It should have surprised redrum'd it from existence at that point, then gone to stab the other thing. as for the core, you have too many points tied up in Brigada, if cut one (the LT) or downgraded one to a tsyklon (ML to FB which with supportware is functionally BS18 before rangeband) and have the Daktari become a normal alguacile in favour of picking up a clockmaker which also supports your TAG in addition to the remote.
Oh that's interesting, I've always written off the Tysklons but they definitely "synergize" better if I'm taking an engineer and Jazz anyways. Something like this? The wildcat LT is kind of awkward but not sure what else to do there... Rumble 1 ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 10 ALGUACIL Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) ALGUACIL Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) JAZZ FTO . (0.5 | 18) JAZZ Hacker Submachine Gun, Pitcher, Cybermine / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 18) TSYKLON Spitfire, Pitcher / Electric Pulse. (1 | 31) TSYKLON Feuerbach, Pitcher / Electric Pulse. (1 | 34) LUPE BALBOA Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, Panzerfaust, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 23) GECKO Mk12, Chain-colt, Blitzen / . (0.5 | 58) GECKO PILOT 2 Assault Pistols, Knife. () HELLCAT HMG, E/Mauler / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 31) WILDCAT Lieutenant Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 19) CLOCKMAKER Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 18) ZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) GROUP 2 3 HELLCAT Spitfire / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 28) TRANSDUCTOR ZOND Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) TRANSDUCTOR ZOND Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) 6 SWC | 299 Points Open in Infinity Army
Don't lead with the Gecko. Neither of those missions score points per round. In Firefight use the Gecko as your second Lt. and a bubble of points and keep it protected. In Show of Force you need to hold an objective at the end of the game. That is the Gecko's forte. Key phrase END of the game. Make him your data tracker and save his wounds for round 3. They might be seeing too much. Remember, the point of them is to shoot at units with close ranged weapons. You don't want to see anything that can shoot them from the DZ. See as little as possible while keeping a long ranged stripe of vision or 2. Diagonal lines are your friend.
Close, I was more thinking like this; Rumble 1 ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 9 1 ALGUACIL Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) ALGUACIL Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) ALGUACIL Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 10) ALGUACIL Combi Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 14) TSYKLON Feuerbach, Pitcher / Electric Pulse. (1 | 34) LUPE BALBOA Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, Panzerfaust, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 23) GECKO Mk12, Chain-colt, Blitzen / . (0.5 | 58) GECKO PILOT 2 Assault Pistols, Knife. () CLOCKMAKER Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 18) ZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) MORAN (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, CrazyKoalas (2) / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 22) BANDIT (Forward Observer) Light Shotgun, Adhesive Launcher / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 23) GROUP 2 5 1 HELLCAT HMG, E/Mauler / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 31) TRANSDUCTOR ZOND Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) TRANSDUCTOR ZOND Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) JAZZ & BILLIE . (0.5 | 24) JAZZ Hacker Submachine Gun, Pitcher, Cybermine / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 18) BILLIE Flash Pulse, E/Mauler / Electric Pulse. (0 | 6) WARCOR (Sixth Sense L1) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3) 6 SWC | 299 Points Open in Infinity Army This adds in few more defensive pieces with the Moran, Warcor and Billie, two of which also allow you project hacking threat. Also Obvious LT syndrome is now mitigated and along with bringing and extra order in Billie, Jazz now no longer activates the fireteam every time she wants to buff the Tsyklon meaning it doesn't get completely nuked on normal rolls. The LGL gives you a nice tool to get at things that are in hard to reach reach places, that you can kind of easily spotlight thanks to fast/forward repeaters and Jazz's high WIP. The Bandit is a great initial assault piece, get it in close, put something down, steal a better gun then go nuts, or just continue to tag multiple targets under templates. If played right Bandits with a full order pool can and will make a mess of an opponent. I would have liked to to make him a KHD but if you've been having issues with getting him murder hacked the FO gives you a solid LO option along with the Moran. Though if you wanted to upgrade to a KHD just bump the Hellcat to Spitfire. Though you may need to make a hole for the bandit by using the Tsyklon or Hellcat, or alternatively have him clear out a piece that's looking at the Hellcat's LZ. The Hellcat, it now has a solid order group to itself now that when it isn't fuelling the Hellcat is allowing Jazz to do her thing. While the HMG is normally a less than ideal weapon for where a Hellcat wants to operate as you will be spending most of your time operating in it's 0 band so more often than not a spitfire is better, in most tournament the back edge of a DZ is often devoid of terrain meaning the HMG can really clean up if he gets on a flank. It is also good if you need to pincer something further back to shoot at it from an unexpected angle. The E/Mauler is also a great tool for disrupting back lines, bricking TAGS and defending the Hellcat in the reactive.
I'd drop the second Hellcat to an AHD and grab the Alg Lt. That'll give you the ability to replace the Wildcat Lt with a WarCor and Stempler. Or you can get a BSG, ADHL or Paramedic Hellcat and a Moran/Lunokhod/Bandit/EVO to taste. Still leaves you with a lot of solid active turn guns (Tsyklon Spitfire, Feurbach, Gecko, HMG). Clockmaker should be in the second order group. You want to be able to lose a Tsyklon to Unc and then just trivially stand them back up again. You can also usually burn spare orders reviving the Transductors. Or at least threatening it so people try to kill them dead. If you end up with 5 spare points, upgrading the Clockmaker to a Wildcat is an option: it opens up a chunk of survival skills, even if it's a worse Engineer. Chuck it on Suppression fire with a spare order and your squishy specialist becomes an excellent backline defence. I'd probably tend not to do this supporting Tsyklons, as they're likely to go Unc but supporting a Reaktion it works: usually Reaktions get killed Dead. Personally though, I'd really want a Moran + Bandit KHD in that list, which is what I'd drop the Spitfire HMG + Wildcat Lt for. I find if I'm only taking 1 AD, then the Spitfire works better than the HMG but that's very much meta/table/and opponent dependant. Rumble 1 ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 9 1 ALGUACIL Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 10) ALGUACIL Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) JAZZ FTO undefined. (0.5 | 18) JAZZ Hacker Submachine Gun, Pitcher, Cybermine / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 18) TSYKLON Spitfire, Pitcher / Electric Pulse. (1 | 31) TSYKLON Feuerbach, Pitcher / Electric Pulse. (1 | 34) LUPE BALBOA Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, Panzerfaust, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 23) GECKO Mk12, Chain-colt, Blitzen / . (0.5 | 58) GECKO PILOT 2 Assault Pistols, Knife. () HELLCAT Spitfire / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 28) MORAN (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, CrazyKoalas (2) / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 22) BANDIT Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Light Shotgun, Adhesive Launcher / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 25) GROUP 2 3 1 ZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) CLOCKMAKER Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 18) TRANSDUCTOR ZOND Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) TRANSDUCTOR ZOND Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) WARCOR (360º Visor) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3) 6 SWC | 299 Points Open in Infinity Army I'd also consider dropping the Gecko to Combis to allow swapping one of the Transductors to a Jaguar. This provides a second source of Smoke, and means that if you don't need to Engineer with group 2 you can instead Smoke.
Are Wildcats linkteam so hard to use as I keep reading everywhere, or there might be some room for those as well ? I was thinking about an idea around the chance to pair them with an ALG + MB core.. WILDCAT Lieutenant Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 19) WILDCAT (Number 2) Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20) WILDCAT Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (2 | 20) Starting from something like that, looking at having Dak and Lupe around, was thinking about the chance of swapping them and build a core link team based on the occasion. The 1 SWC for an Alguaciles Lieutenant it is an hard tax to pay, considering that CJC seems always to run too short about those.. Any thoughts about it ? too unrealistic to be usefull ?
It is a nice link, but there you are overpaying for that HRL as well. TO avoid the SWC tax on the Lt you paid 2 SWC and 59 points. I once used with success (like in ITS 9) a WildCat Haris with the AHD, Haris and Spitfire. It was backed with a full Alguacil Core with MSR for the long lanes, McM and a couple Bandits if I don’t recall wrong. It never did nothing good, because it lacked mobility to place itself in good spots for that Spitfire.
The 2 SWC are paid for an heavy weapon on BS13. Pretty much the same cost all around, if we are looking at infantry, more than REM, not taking into account Spitfire ( due to the reduced range of the weapon ). Still I got your point, and appreciated the bit of personal background.
Wildcats work reasonably well defensively: that trio and Jazz FTO, Lupe and Dak with give you a solid defensive core. Jazz inside or outside of the link depending on whether you need SSL2 hacking. Add 2 Algs (Lt and decoy) and a Tsyklon/MB HMG and something could work. But I think swapping between the cores is probably too cute: I think you'd be better off just running a defensive core + singletons. This is a variation of a list I ran successfully in the first half of the year. It needs to be played carefully vs MSV AROS, but you can adjust it to work better. Corregidor Jurisdictional Command - IPE - Wildcats (300/300 | 6/6) Group #1 | 10 Models | 8 2 0 Wildcat Lieutenant | Lieutenant, Combi Rifle, Light Flamethrower, D-Charges, Pistol / Knife (19) Wildcat Number 2 | Number 2, Combi Rifle, Light Flamethrower, D-Charges, Pistol / Knife (20) Wildcat Heavy Rocket Launcher | Heavy Rocket Launcher, Assault Pistol / Knife (20) Jazz Jazz FTO | Submachine Gun, Pitcher, Cybermines, Pistol / Knife (18) Daktari Doctor | Combi Rifle, Pistol / Knife (14) Lupe Balboa Combi | Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, Panzerfaust, Smoke Grenades, Pistol / CCW (23) Bandit Boarding Shotgun | Boarding Shotgun, E/Mauler, Pistol / DA CCW (26) Bandit Killer Hacker | Killer Hacking Device, Light Shotgun, Adhesive Launcher, Pistol / DA CCW (25) Moran Observer | Forward Observer, CrazyKoalas, Combi Rifle, Pistol / Knife (22) Jaguar Chain Rifle | Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades, Pistol / DA CCW (10) Group #2 | 6 Models | 5 1 0 Intruder HMG | HMG, Grenades, Pistol / CCW (42) Jaguar Chain Rifle | Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades, Pistol / DA CCW (10) Jaguar Chain Rifle | Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades, Pistol / DA CCW (10) Alguacil Combi | Combi Rifle, Pistol / Knife (10) Hellcat Spitfire | Spitfire, Pistol / Knife (28) Warcor 360° Visor | 360° Visor, Flash Pulse, Stun Pistol / Knife (3) Open in MayaNet
Check out Sekban. 2 SWC HRL on Wildcats is legacy from a time when 2 x HRL Wildcats in a core + 2 x 1.5 SWC HMGs/Spitfires (ie. Intruders and Hellcats) would have been stupidly good. Same reason Prowlers get stung be 2 SWC Spitfires.
ah ah ah. That made my day. The list, it is interesting, as always. From my point of view it could be a starting point, based on what I would like to have, more than regarding what I could think it could work / perform the better. So in those terms, it is a huge help, trying to figuring out, how to make a wildcat linkteam works well with the rest of the army. I am already thinking about some possible review of it, but, if possible to ask, why not adding any transductor to amplify the attack range of the Jazz and the Bandit ? does the Moran itself do works well enough to solve it, just by himself ?
The real core of the list is the 6 person Wildcat Core, Bandit KHD and Moran. The rest is pretty much taste. Jazz is a 1 for 1 replacement of the Wildcat AHD that was in the original version. She's primarily there defensively so that TAG/HI can't just facetank the Koalas and push through the Moran. I'm not a huge fan of active Hacking as I find that with low burst and transient outcomes it's often extremely inefficient. Given that primary role and her own Pitchers, yes the Moran alone is usually enough. If I was going to add a REM, I'd look at swapping the BSG Bandit for a Lunokhod. With an all Wildcat Fireteam I know I can rely on them to cover the backline, but Jazz and the Dak add vulnerabilities to deep strikers. It also frees up the Moran to cover the far flank rather than a direct approach to the Wildcats. Aside: I love Jazz in a Fireteam (SSL2 + Maestro + BTS6 makes her quite resilient) BUT you need to the option to leave her out of it (due issues from HTA and HD AROs mainly). Which is why I think having a spare member is necessary. This is the original list, I had a blast with it for a lot of last year. It was fun having a total of 47pts that deployed in my DZ. KwBgTAPgzCIQwgKXgAgOoEsA2ATAxgIYAuAzigMoCuADtVhgKYnQCkALGyCwIwBssLAIRR2nHv25CRHLnxAjho2cACcADilKeqgOxCVo3izAqwYfYfFRJg4KPN9ubIZLZQN3YDoODurth68UAYAAs4cknIavv6BYr5cHHp87i7SoOJuQmCJXuLA5oJg4byRvKUsISFAA I do think that HRL + #2 + Lt + Dak + Jazz + Lupe is probably the strongest way to play the Wildcat Core at the moment. It comes in at 5pts more expensive than the Feurbach + Alg + Alg Lt + DJL but is a more self contained package.
The Moran repeater is fine to give the bandit reach to the other side of the table, Jazz on the other hand is going to be spending the entire game sitting on her hands until it's time to hack something in ARO, and not doing anything in your active so doen't need another repeater overly much. The transductor is useful in other areas (if you can fit it) primarily as and ARO piece and anti Camo piece when coupled with a sensor. Also I really don't like Jazz in a fireteam, even before taking the super netrod in to account I really don't like her in a fireteam. Sure the SSl2 is nice but it's only a HD so unless you are slapping some thing with Maestro is going to be pretty ineffectual mostly because Gotcha! is pretty awful, leaving Overlord as the only real threat to non hackers, but it will still soak enemy orders pretty well. But thats all secondary complaints, The biggest problem with Jazz in fireteams is that you can't activate her for support ware (which is arguably her primary purpose) without whomever you left standing out to watch a firelane just getting punked on an unopposed roll (which is exacerbated if she is in the same fireteam as the REM she is trying to buff, which I see with worrying regularity), with the only around this (not including nothing actually looking at the team) being to cancel and reform the team which is just a resource sink that achieves little. Unless you have no AD3+, no REMs, no HI or anything else that wants HD support in the list Jazz is better off solo and bringing Billie with her.
That's very much a context thing. I completely accept your points, and they're reasons I wouldn't include her in the Fireteam. But I think the option to include her in one is more useful than saving 2-4pts on an order. Gotcha! is ~28% odds unopposed vs BTS6. Not great odds, but enough to give a Stealth HI pause before just walking through a Repeater. I was seeing increasing numbers of Stealth HI/TAGs. The biggest kicker is Surprise Shot though. With SSL2 a Heckler KHD is on 36 vs 29% to take out Jazz, without SSL2 (and Surprise Shot included) that's 44 vs 20. That's the difference between Jazz being a bad Surprise Redrum target and a good one. I probably only want her linked when going second and when I'm concerned about those things. So likely only T1 or late game to replace casualties in the link. Ironically I think it's in lists where she's less core to the list (ie you're not heavily relying on her for MML2) where losing the option of linking her and grabbing Billie is a better idea. So the Alg + MB version of the special core or a not-special Alg Core, Jazz is useful enough to find a home in the list (particularly if you have a Moran, maybe a Lunokhod/Reaktion and a Hellcat), but not so necessary that losing her is major loss. It's worth noting that in the list I proposed her role is almost purely defensive: I also tend to use AD mid to late game, so the likelihood of her Supportware causing a Wildcat to die is a lot lower.
