Antipode pack loses a member, fails the WIP-3 roll at the beginning of the round and goes into retreat-state. Q1: Can player use a one cmd token to remove the retreat token? Before answering, keep in mind that: - The pack has now two members. 2 cmd tokens are needed? What happens if only 1 cmd token is used? - The entire pack is in retreat. The individual antipodes aren’t in retreat. Cmd tokens can only be used to remove retreat from individual troopers. If pack retreats, cmd tokens can’t be used? Q2: If cmd token(s) can be used to remove retreat-state, is the pack/troopers immune to retreat-state until the end of the game?
Q1: Antipode packs count as one trooper so only one token is needed. Q2: The wording of the command token use seems to be assuming that there's only ever one retreat! State to cancel, so without a clear FAQ on this situation it looks like they will be immune to retreat for the rest of the game.
To expand on cazboab's answer for 2, that's literally what the text says: Have one troop be unaffected by Retreat! This troop ignores the effects of the Retreat! situation until the end of the game. Bold added for emphasis. Note that 're-entering' Retreat in a three-turn game would mean that you had to start your first player turn already in Retreat, manage to heal enough troopers in that turn to not be in Retreat in your second player turn while not losing even more stuff in reaction, and then starting your final player turn in Retreat again. It's vanishingly unlikely, even in missions that don't end with Retreat.
I think the more likely situation isn’t the player’s force being in retreat, but something like getting the controller killed in the first round. If you do get into this situation (controller disabled or dead, or missing pack member) early enough, the Pack has to make the WIP-3 roll at the start of each active turn that it’s in that situation, so it’s entirely possible for the pack to enter Retreat again after you cancelled Retreat previously, if it was just cancelling the Retreat state and not just ignoring it for the rest of the game.
As per the Spanish resolved rules, one command token per Antipode. That is to say, 2 in this case. https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/resuelto-antipodas-y-orden-coordinada.24781/page-2#post-151249
The annoyance is in the Retreat(state) cancellation rules: You may also cancel a single trooper's Retreat! state by spending a Command Token. If you do, the trooper ignores the effects of Retreat! until the end of the game. Is the word “cancel” in the part there just really bad word choice?
No, it doesn't specifically deal with that, but you can piece it together from the normal rules. You only cancel one of the Antipodes' Retreat! while the other remains in Retreat!. Since the Retreat!ing Antipode must attempt to leave the area by the closest Table Edge, you will very quickly end up with either a very limited move direction or a couple of immobilised Antipodes.
You misunderstood me. For example, what happens if I declare CC attack skill on non-retreating antipode while the rest of the pack is fleeing? It clearly says that retreating antipodes can only declare move or dodge skill. Q3: What happens if a retreating antipode pack passes the WIP-3 roll during the following turn? Q4: It also seems that if that WIP-3 is failed, the entire antipode pack cancels camouflaged regardless if cmd token(s) are used to cancel retreat immediately. Or perhaps the individual antipodes aren’t retreating? Does the spanish section tell how these rules are supposed to work? Also limiting antipode movement is very easy. You can use a cmd token to make their irregular order regular and spend it on somewhere else.
They are unable to declare the skill and declare Idle instead as per the Antipode rules (e.g. same case as if only one Antipode is in CC) Q3. Passing a WIP roll for Retreat doesn't specify that it removes Retreat. Q4. Spanish ruling doesn't deal with this, but keep in mind you can't cancel Retreat before you are in Retreat, so there is a very clear order of operations.
@Mahtamori You could have read the rules before commenting. There is subtle difference between declaring and executing orders. A non-retreating antipode pack member can declare any skill, but can't necessary execute it. When this happens, the member must remain Idle. This is very relevant when a pack declares CC attack skill. The entire pack cancels camouflage even though only a single pack member executes the CC attack, because declaring CC attack removes camouflage. By RAW a retreating antipode pack member can only declare Move or Dodge, but can execute* any skill. What happens if a pack declares conflicting orders? Can a pack declare conflicting orders? * I don't really know. Could someone please translate and post these questions to the Spanish Rules Forum, it seems to be place where you get customer service. The rules are very poorly written (but not as poorly written as Smoke Special Ammunition rules). If anything, reading the antipode pack rule makes it seem that the antipode pack special retreat state can't be cancelled by anything. By RAW even if you could somehow cancel retreat for some or all members, the pack would still be in retreat-state and couldn't declare anything but Move or Dodge. Then again everything in the Antipode rule implies (RAI) that the antipodes count as a single trooper and retreat state can be cancelled by single cmd-token.
You appear to be claiming that the pack can't declare CC Attack at all, unless all remaining members are in base contact with enemies. I strongly suggest that you play it like all other instances of multiple models activating - you can declare a Skill as long as at least one of them can legally declare it, and any that couldn't legally declare it will Idle instead.
No, I didn't say that all. Ofc all other skill requirements need to be fulfilled (by at least one member of the pack/coordinated order) before the skill can be declared. Has it been clarified how models in retreat-state function during coordinated order? Can they be a part of coordinated order?
Retreat! does not prevent a trooper from participating in a Coordinated Order, but typically in Retreat! you are a bit short on Regular Orders so it doesn't come up much. You just have to observe the standard limitations of troopers in Retreat! regarding which skills they can declare or not, and I must remind you that a trooper that is not in CC can not declare CC Attack so the situation you have an issue with does have a comparison in normal play that you've probably already solved.
Okay, I think know what you mean. You think that retreat-state works similar to engaged-state. Fair enough. Retreating antipode would declare illegal cc attack, but because of retreat-state it would be turned to idle instead. On a side note, has it been clarified how coordinated order works if the spearhead model is engaged? Can he declare move+cc attack, or is the declaration restricted by engaged state? This is ofc relevant for the other models in the coordinated order and antipode pack.
Spearhead doesn't actually restrict Antipodes in any meaningful way, unless you're dealing with a Coordinated Order at the same time, so for Antipodes whether the Spearhead is Engaged or not is irrelevant. As for the question on Coordinated Order, as far as I can tell, unlike with Fireteams, Coordinated Orders don't require everyone to declare the same as the leader, only that all members declare the same order - basically during a Coordinated Order everyone acts the same skills while during a Fireteam order everyone follows the leader. I am, however, certain I've read differing opinions on this topic, and it could be that all skills get "validated" by the Spearhead of a Coordinated Order.
Yes, spearhead doesn't restrict antipodes in any way, but still the same question. Example: Antipodes pack member A is engaged and antipode member B isn't. B is in A ZoC, but further than 6" away from the nearest enemy trooper. Can antipode assault pack declare close combat attack + move order?
@ijw Antipodes have movement of 6". If B could move into b2b contact with enemy, it can declare close combat attack. Therefore move+cc attack is legal declaration.
