Mercs getting to be too much?

I've previously run an entire imperial service list based on Mercs, basically bank rolled by the Hsien Lt (a speculo agent) in charge as an deniable black ops team

 

Supposedly, SoF Extra is there to make such a scenario. But for some reason mercs are also being added to default armies. Not all of them, but quite many.

 

Here is the perfect solution for people offended on some level by mercenaries.

Don't use them.

If you feel "compelled" to play with them, then that's on you. If you don't then I applaud you for the courage of your convictions.

This thread really boils down to a bunch of Negative Play Experience flag waving. Look, I get it. Some people don't like the mercenaries from head canon, some don't like it because they are obsessed with "the play experience", some have other reasons or a mix of them or whatever. But I hope we can step back and see what we are really doing is telling other people how to play. We are passing judgement on how they play and what they play with.

Which is [censored].

 

We aren't telling people how to play. CB does. But game is played by 2 players and the opinion that what's going in the game affects both players also has some merit, I believe.

 

Except this thread appears to me to be a call to change the existing format. I'm hardly one to be thrilled with CB's every decision but this one isn't theirs. It's ours.

 

This works as expected, remember outrage? that was a wholle mission done by mercenaries under a PanO CO.

When we get mercs LTs in vanilla we might have a problem.

 

That's not quite the same as telling people how to play, legality of their way be damned.

Still, the crux stays the same in my eyes, what you bring to the table affects both players, and the opinion that something should not be there is as good as the one suggesting it should. From here it's a matter of how to upset less people, I guess.

 

Absolutely.

Keep in mind the usual reaction of these forums to any change. Every FAQ issued. Exrah. Whatever weird ass minutiae is in the rules forum this hour. No one likes being on the wrong end.

 

Pretty similar?
- Armand le Fuet has 2 Wounds (way more resilient and anti-shock), while the Intruder only 1. Also, Armand is easier to heal with a Medikit.
- Armand has ODD (on its first wound), while the Intruder has Camo (ergo, Marker State and Surprise Shot).
- Armand has MSV1 in one profile, while the Intruder has MSV2 in all its profiles (Smoke combo).
- The Intruder has a wide range of weapons available (and also Specialist and Lt. options), while Armand only carries the Sniper Rifle.

I'd say they are very different troopers.

 

It could be that BS14+ means having bleeding-edge predictive rangefinders like a TrackingPoint. That's a $10+k rifle+scope+custom ammo combo, when an M4 costs about $1.5k between rifle and EOTech/ACOG (edit: and most of that is the EOTech, not the rifle!)

Exrah Mercs NOW!!!!

 

Doesn't make it any better:
@a: So he is even better than the Intruder
@b: ODD gives -6 and Camo+surpise shot gives ... -6, so comparable
@c: the only real difference
@d: So only the Intruder Sniper is comparable to the Sniper Armand ... that's your point?

I am not saying that Armand is bad or anything, I just want to say that overall the usefullness of Mercs accross factions is not equal but skewed. There are factions that almost don't profit from Mercs, like Nomads or Haqq and there are factions that profit pretty much from Mercs cause they lack some of the toolboxes, like PanO.

And that's whats annoying me.

 

@b is not comparable at all, because one gives you Marker State, and that is very important when it comes to deciding when to engage, while also hiding information about what's behind the Camo Marker.

 

And still they are both taken for the same role. While other factions might take Armand, while playing Nomads, I have never thought of taking him. And that's just my argument. That for some factions Mercs are mostly useless, while other Factions benefit pretty much from them.

To correct this, some BS 14+ Mercs would be needed. They would be pretty useless for PanO, Aleph or CA, but Nomads, Haqq and Ariadna would maybe take them.

 

This isn't what is meant by "negative play experience". Let's not dilute the term so much that it becomes useless. A negative play experience refers to designs that while balanced are either 1) incredibly boring/mindless to play (if Fatality was balanced, for example, it would still fit in this category because it rewards bad play just as much as good play), 2)make the most ideal strategy one that is also "bad sportsmanship" (such as lists with so many orders they are impossible to play in a reasonable amount of time), or 3) mechanics that make the game feel negative even when winning (it's hard to come up with examples of this in Infinity, but have you ever just crit someone off the table in Turn 1? That would fall under this category).

Play experience is about mechanics, not anyone's head canon. Let's please use that term responsibly.

 

Re:Armand, I've literally never seen anyone field him in two years of play in 4 different metas (one of which is one of the biggest in the Dire States) so I don't think he can really be that competitive. The other thing is that comparing him to an Intruder is probably not a good argument since he's only comparable to the Sniper (which does get taken, just not nearly as often as the HMG) and doesn't have marker state.

Even in Tohaa where he could get a mate (even before the mate changes) I literally never saw anyone field him. Ever. Anytime I consider him I have to ask why I'm not taking a Sukeul missile/Gao-Rael and an extra order, or two Clipso BSGs instead.

 

I bring him in DBS lists about maybe 5-10% of my total games across factions. Not my favorite way to play Druze, but he can do work.

EDIT: From chatting with other players on forum/discord, I can think of at least 2-3 others that use him from time to time.

 

Didn't crit poor Josh off the table, but did Rambo him off the table in N1/N2 with a Cutter (IIRC). Killed 8/10 models, then got greedy and tried for his Szallie.

Felt really bad about it too. Felt 'didn't use a TAG for months afterwards' bad about it.