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AI Beacon Vs Tactical Window

Discussion in '[Archived]: N3 Rules' started by xagroth, Sep 2, 2019.

  1. wildchevy

    wildchevy Well-Known Member
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    Your warcors were given the opportunity to proofread and give feedback this go around. TW is one of the sections that we couldn't get clarification in time.
     
  2. theradrussian

    theradrussian Well-Known Member

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    "your warcors"

    *sees WARCOR banner on profile of wildchevy*

    ....wat?
     
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  3. Arkhos94

    Arkhos94 Well-Known Member

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    Yet we have multiple thread asking for clarification mere hours after ITS 11 publication

    I think @Hecaton comment is quite valid
     
  4. gregmurdock

    gregmurdock Extremely Beloved Member

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    lol ok, it's extremely obvious what the intention of this rule is but keep stressing yourself out over it
     
  5. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    I *did* say "more deeply." Clearly not enough time for that was allowed.
     
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  6. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    There are so many fucky situations in the rules where the technical distinction between "Trooper" and "Equipment" is confused that it's an entirely reasonable question.
     
  7. gregmurdock

    gregmurdock Extremely Beloved Member

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    It isn't. If you use LI as the basis it's completely clear what is required. I understand the wording isn't obvious but we, as people who have been playing this game for x years, know exactly how it should be played.
     
  8. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Why would you use LI as the basis? It's worded differently from LI.
     
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  9. wildchevy

    wildchevy Well-Known Member
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    Here's a bad for instance of a LI with 20 troop profiles.

    Nomads──────────────────────────────────────────────────[​IMG]9 [​IMG]1 [​IMG]1 PUPPET MASTERS Submachine Gun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) PUPPETBOT Red Fury / Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 16) PUPPETBOT Red Fury / Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 16) PUPPETBOT Red Fury / Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 16) ZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) ZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) ZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) ZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) ALGUACIL Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 10) REVEREND HEALER Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, EXP CCW. (0 | 33) BAKUNIN ÜBERFALLKOMMANDO undefined. (0 | 24) [​IMG] CHIMERA Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, Eclipse Grenades / Viral CCW. (0 | 21) [​IMG] x3 PUPNIK DA CCW. (0 | 3) ALGUACIL Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) ALGUACIL Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) ALGUACIL Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) ALGUACIL Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) ALGUACIL Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) ALGUACIL Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) 5.5 SWC | 199 PointsOpen in Infinity Army
     
  10. oldGregg

    oldGregg Well-Known Member

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    I'm lost ... @wildchevy I didn't think Limited insertion had anything to do with this? LI is about taking one combat group, no? Is Tactical Window about taking 1.5 combat groups, or about taking 15 models/troops?

    LIMITED INSERTION
    This Extra means the scenarios have a narrow window of insertion, allowing for only small teams to be inserted into the zone of operations. So, players are not allowed to use Army Lists with more than one Combat Group. This Extra does not allow the Strategic Use of Command Tokens.

    vs.

    TACTICAL WINDOW
    This Extra means the scenarios have a narrow window of insertion, with a tactical advantage, allowing for only small teams and a support group to be inserted into the zone of operations. So, players are not allowed to use Army Lists with more than 15 troops.

    After reading through the thread here I feel like none of the questions have been answered. If Tactical window is about 15 troops specifically, then it seems some factions could be at a serious advantage in these games?
     
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  11. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Very much this.

    FFS, it's the Infinity Tournament System! Tournament rules need to be rock solid, even more-so than the core rules.




    Or, conversely, a 'LI' list that might not actually qualify for Tactical Window due to order count:
    Invincible Army
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]9
    DĀOYĪNG Lieutenant L2 Hacker (Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 29)
    TAI SHENG Mk12, Chain-colt, Stun Grenades / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 45)
    ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Haris, Tactical Awareness) Combi Rifle + 1 TinBot B (Deflector L2) / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0.5 | 34)
    ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Duo, Tactical Awareness) HMG / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (1.5 | 38)
    ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Duo, Tactical Awareness) HMG / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (1.5 | 38)
    HǍIDÀO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 26)
    ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Haris, Tactical Awareness) Combi Rifle + 1 TinBot B (Deflector L2) / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0.5 | 34)
    ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Duo, Tactical Awareness) HMG / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (1.5 | 38)
    MECH-ENGINEER Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    Or one of the "Abusing Tactical Awareness for Fun and Profit" meme lists, because I'd actually play that list above.
     
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  12. Ayaxs

    Ayaxs Crane agent, Yuandun division.
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    The spirit of the rule is to limit the number of order-generating troops, not the actual models.

    The list wildchevy shows is legal for Tactical Window as it has only 10 troopers.

    G:marionette:

    All the members of a Troupe and their Controller must be in the same Combat Group where they count as only one trooper.

    G:Servant
    The user of this Special Skill and its Doctor/Engineer must be in the same Combat Group, where both of them count as only one trooper.

    G:Sync
    The user of this Special Skill and its Controller, known as a Synchronized Unit, must be in the same Combat Group, where both of them count as only one trooper.

    Antipode
    All members of an Assault Pack belong to the same Combat Group, where they count as one single trooper.



    The list of Section9 also is legal as it has only 9 troopers, considering the above.
     
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  13. oldGregg

    oldGregg Well-Known Member

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    So that hasn't really answered the AI beacon question at all, has it? @Ayaxs you bring up "Combat Group" quite a few times, so I just wanted to clarify; I'm not at all confused about limited insertion or its wording. What I am confused about, (as are others), is the limits of Tactical Window. There is nothing in the text that indicates combat groups, just troopers. Beacons are explicitly not troopers, though have an impact to and are limited by combat groups.
     
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  14. Ayaxs

    Ayaxs Crane agent, Yuandun division.
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    Yeah, netrod is in a weird spot, as it is not a trooper, but equipment, i know. It needs a clarification, but it is almost assured netrods are going to be considered as troopers, because the army lists already consider them as troopers (you cant put them in a full group)
     
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  15. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Is it? That remains to be seen.
     
  16. Ayaxs

    Ayaxs Crane agent, Yuandun division.
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    A Mão Esquerda likes this.
  17. Ayaxs

    Ayaxs Crane agent, Yuandun division.
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  18. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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  19. oldGregg

    oldGregg Well-Known Member

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    Ok now that kinda makes it more confusing- 15 orders as a limit would punish those lists that would normally be taking a Tac-Aware unit. Now can you not take those in a Tactical Window mission?

    Edit: same goes for impetuous/irregular etc. What about those units?
     
    #39 oldGregg, Sep 3, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2019
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  20. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Good, maybe it will make Dashat players not take TacWare troopers.



    Yup. That's a big problem.
     
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