In most of these cases, you would rather have MA3. You're already imposing -12 from Surprise Attack and TO, and you want the higher crit chance. MA5 is only useful when you can reduce your targets BS below zero with it because it completely negates your risk then (no chance of enemy critting), but even then keep in mind that with MA3 you can't possibly roll below a 9, so as long as their BS is modified to below that, you can only ever get hurt by a crit.
My point was that as fireteams ignore Surprise Attack, it would still generate the negative modifier, but I can see your point. The 15% extra probability of critting is definitely substantial. In fact, the only significant advantage I can see against a shooting ARO is where a shotgun could clip someone else (a corner case, indeed!) but that's hardly likely to come up early in the first turn.
I agree with the above math. My point is ma3 and m4 steal a lot of spotlight, but I feel I get good effects from ma5 too. Ss2 does remove the surprise attack mod so ma5 is usually the best defensive option, and I spend the orders to get my points worth. I also have gotten to use that B* versus some deployments.
How often do people use shinobu over standard oniwaban? It seems to me that the extra 6-10 pts for smoke, ma5 and +1 cc would be worth it in a faction with limited access to smoke. Plus she has the Combi rifle for going into SF (although I think recloaking is generally a better idea, right?) Everyone so far has said they only deploy for use in the active turn, but what about using engage in the the reactive turn? Is this not a useful tactic or is it that you have to be very lucky to have something worth killing run past within range? I’ve not really used these guys much in my lists, mainly because I was playing JSA when I was first learning the game but I’m hoping to dig them out and get some practice in- this thread has been really useful.
You shouldn't engage because you've only got a 50% chance of sticking it, best-case scenario. Your duders are too expensive to stake on a roll like that. It's better to let them go and attack from behind if the situation demands. Unless it's an absolute present, like a Jotum on its last order or something, I wouldn't break HD.
Well, in most games you're probably taking either Shinobu or Saito in addition to Yojimbo, to have two smoke-throwers. But IMO the difference is where you deploy Shinobu v Saito, and their preferred target(s). Shinobu is a big game hunter, you send her after TAGs or HI. Saito can hurt TAGs and HI, but he's better against 1W targets or the occasional 2W nuisance (or structures). IF you think you can stick the Engage, it may be worth it to try and stop someone's Rambo run. But as @helsbecter said, you don't have a great chance of sticking the Engage, AND you lose the Surprise Attack bonus for Engaging in ARO. Shinobu has a 58% chance of Engaging a rampaging Jotum (against Jotum's HMG), a 65% chance of Engaging a rampaging Drago (against HFT). She is more likely to die to the Drago, though. You're looking at a 15-23% chance of dying in that ARO. Hrm. I think I found a glitch in the Dice Calc... 'Scuse me, need to go report that!
I see what you’re saying, better to let that major target run past you and backtrack in the active turn than risk the engage except in the most extreme of circumstances. Its a shame that engage isn’t more useful!
Pretty much. Yeah, it's very limited against well-armed and high-BS troops. Works better against lighter targets, which would really be the preferred prey of Saito instead of Shinobu. But it's not something you should completely ignore. I had a game, editions ago now, where I rambo'd a Cutter into the backfield of a Nomad player who hadn't deployed well (nobody watching his flanks or rear). Josh was way too used to other games, where there wasn't a threat from the sides or rear like that. My rambo run was finally stopped when someone got into CC with my Cutter.
Engage gets better the more isolated your target gets. I wish the roll only mattered as a dodge because failing to reach melee is too simple and critical to defense. Second big problem with engage that you need to consider is even if you did make the roll, your opponent can shoot you dead unopposed, or stop spending orders and the resulting melee is your order cost. Suppressive on oni is only if you need the extra firepower, like preventing a turn 3 button press. Going marker state is planning for a passive reactive turn. Kitsune is a required upgrade for my purposes. Smoking a link team is important for avoiding overlapping bs attacks. The +1 ph is important for deploying and dodging templates.