1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

How about Vanilla PanOceania?

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by BarbeChenue, Mar 28, 2019.

  1. BarbeChenue

    BarbeChenue Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2018
    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    50
    Last thread talking about Vanilla PanOceania was ages ago, and it was mostly about "why" Vanilla PanO was one of the worst out there. The one before is stickied, and it's @Judge Dredd's guide to vanilla.

    Now, with water under the bridge, Third Offensive and Daedalus' Fall have brought a lot of new options to the base faction. At the same time, a number of sectorials have improved to the point where it's hard to imagine how to beat them outside using Fireteams... Yet according to @Teslarod's stats vanilla ALEPH and Combined army have been dominating throughout ITS seasons 9 & 10, toe to toe with the likes of OSS, Varuna and Tohaa (the later doesn't really count as Vanilla, does it).

    The future is hard to predict, as extremely "pushed" Fireteam options make their entrance into more and more sectorials... yet, at the same time, Vanilla can always pick the best models each time, and when Fireteams break, model quality becomes more and more important...

    ***

    New options, off the top of my head:
    • 1 Helot Militia, especially the 9pts / 0.5 SWC option. Regular with Joan
    • 1 Monstrucker Engineer WIP13(14) in Vanilla, for 13pts. Gets Climbing Plus, and it has Drop Bears. Regular with Joan.
    • 1 Zulu Cobra, especially Sensor/Jammer and KHD, AFAIK (didn't play with them enough)
    • Bolt Chain of Command at 27pts, Bolt KHD
    • 1 Seraph HMG, a relatively inexpensive TAG option at 79 pts (cheapest before: 85pts Tikbalangs, 93pts Squalo and 94pts Dragões)
    • 1 Echo Bravo
    Plus stuff from various other sectorials we can access together exclusively in Vanilla:
    • 2 Regulars from Acon
    • 1 Swiss Guard & 1 Aquilla Guard from NCA
    • 2 Auxilia from NCA
    • 1 Order Sergeant / Spec. Sergeant from MO
    • 2 Croc Men
    • 1 Hexas
    • 1 Cutters
    • and tons of other stuff...
    Some mercenaries such as:
    • 2 Krakot Renegades, excellent for removing annoying midfield speedbumps
    • 1 Authorized Bounty Hunter, the cheapest being at 12pts (5% chance to roll for Smoke...)
    • Aïda Swanson, etc.
    And finally the stuff that is still missing a proper sectorial (Svalarheima), yet finds a home in Vanilla:
    • 2 Nisses
    • Jotum
    (This list is obviously incomplete. You Can Help By Expanding It.)

    ***

    Joan's Sectorial has a crucial mechanic that is less useful to Fireteam-based armies: Coordinated Orders.

    The ability to, once per turn, do a Coordinated order is not to be underestimated.

    Also, you *save* on Command tokens by not having to reform Fireteams throughout the game, which can also translate in more C.O.'s.

    Finally, late game, assuming you managed to cripple the enemy's valid Fireteam-enabler, you have an even playing field. Bask in your superior troop quality as you mow down his arrogant posse. (In theory at least.)

    So, what do you guy's think?

    Example of random list using all of Vanilla's tools:

    Nisse of you to come by
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]9 [​IMG]1 [​IMG]1
    JOAN OF ARC Lieutenant MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, DA CCW. (+1 | 50)
    NISSE HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 34)
    NISSE HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 34)
    ZULU-COBRA (Sensor) Combi Rifle, Jammer / Assault Pistol, Knife. (0 | 29)
    REGULAR (Minelayer, Sensor) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 14)
    REGULAR (Minelayer, Sensor) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 14)
    FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    MONSTRUCKER Submachine Gun, Chain Rifle, Drop Bears / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
    KRAKOT RENEGADE 2 Chain Rifles, Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 14)
    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]4 [​IMG]2
    BOLT (Killer Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun, E/Mauler / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21)
    AUXILIA Combi Rifle + AUXBOT_1 / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
    [​IMG] AUXBOT_1 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4)
    AUXILIA Combi Rifle + AUXBOT_1 / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
    [​IMG] AUXBOT_1 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4)
    SPEC. SERGEANT Heavy Rocket Launcher + AUXBOT_1 / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 19)
    [​IMG] AUXBOT_1 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4)
    TECH-BEE (Remote Assistant Level 1, Specialist Operative) Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
    HELOT MILITIAMAN Submachine Gun, Light Rocket Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 9)
    6 SWC | 300 Points
    Open in Infinity Army
     
    #1 BarbeChenue, Mar 28, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2019
    Deltervees, Mikes, Seraphin and 3 others like this.
  2. Judge Dredd

    Judge Dredd Well-Known Member
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2018
    Messages:
    851
    Likes Received:
    1,267
    I would probably swap a nisse into the second group to take advantage of orders for an extra gunner. And if I could I would probably try to squeeze in the CoC bolt with the ever expanding ways to cause LoL. Other than that, it looks solid.
     
    BarbeChenue likes this.
  3. SmaggTheSmug

    SmaggTheSmug Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2018
    Messages:
    497
    Likes Received:
    753
    Nisses is the reason I play vanilla PanO and never look at any sectorial. None of the sectorials seems "complete" enough.
    The fact that vanilla has now an engineer worth his points only enforces my view.
     
    BarbeChenue and Maksimas like this.
  4. Teslarod

    Teslarod when in doubt, Yeet

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    2,407
    Likes Received:
    4,864
    @BarbeChenue That list does a lot of things right and a lot of things wrong.
    Double Nisse is nice, but to get them and the Orders to fuel them you forgot to bring someone to cross the board for you.
    You'll also be in a bit of trouble against really tough AROs like a Hollowman ML or the classic Kamau Sniper without a Doc to put the Nisse back up and running.
    Spec Sergeant + Auxbot is one of the worst things you could run in Vanilla, would probably drop him for the Doc and a Palbot, there is also a Warcor missing and the Auxilias would like to be FOs.

    In between Regular Minelayer, ZC Jammer, Auxilia, Krakots and Helot you can invest too many points in light troops. That said for an entry level list that one is plenty scary. What it's missing is something that starts up the board or can bully it's way there like an Echo Bravo Red Fury, Bulleteer, Joan V2, Swiss Guard, Aquila or TAG.
    What does Joan do for you here? Sure she makes all those Irregular pieces Regular, but she is 50 points and you didn't invest in a CoC. Her Coordinated Orders don't have a Swiss Missile or something nasty to coordinate, so it's mostly extra Movement every turn.

    If I were to rebuild that, I'd take a look at Joan, ZC and that Spec Sergeant and figure out how to make the list deadlier with those points. Maybe Joan V2 + CoC Bolt, Warcor and an EB Red Fury/Paramedic (depending on mission) with a little bit of wiggling.
     
  5. Make PanO Great Again :P

    Make PanO Great Again :P Varuna, with the deadliest reptiles in the sphere

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2017
    Messages:
    547
    Likes Received:
    546
    I`m all for vainilla
    You change a a big attack vector (the link) for multiple mid ones that come from much diverse angles, a different kind of game all together.
    Some of last days changes will put all of this to the test sadly, as some of the new auto includes cant even try to be countered without the link bonus or spamming of particular units (TO/camo, Helots) and even then its a tricky business.

    Here is a small log of Vainilla PanO in a small league we are doing here, being playing games outside of it lately, but im hopeful next week will update

    https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/criollo-league-log.26892/
     
    BarbeChenue likes this.
  6. Cartographer

    Cartographer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    738
    Likes Received:
    1,216
    It's amazing that that AVA 3 in vanilla is actually in danger with the updates to Bolts:
    Cheap KHD
    Cheap CoC
    Cheap Drop Bears
    I can actually see myself picking all three in the right circumstances (and not just Biotechvore where they were "sacrificial" units londing their orders to someone else to let them escape).
     
  7. Make PanO Great Again :P

    Make PanO Great Again :P Varuna, with the deadliest reptiles in the sphere

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2017
    Messages:
    547
    Likes Received:
    546
    Dropbears Bolt Vs Dropbears Monstrucker in Vainilla PanO

    Monstrucker points: 5 points cheaper, can go into multi SF, Direct template, Specialist, actually better throwing dropbears, 4-4 move, climbing+

    Bolt points: regular (Joan dont care), +1 armor and 6 bts, Bioinmunity, Vet1, +1BS

    Funny enough this 2 together cost the same as a Minelayer Crocman, so there is that, but if not for a Dropbear spam the third Bolt wont see much action.

    Bonus point for every other faction that didnt already had Dropbears (the special PanO tech, like Madtraps, Crazy Koalas) and didnt want to pay the upgrade for Mine dispenser (that we dont get neither)
     
    Superfluid and eciu like this.
  8. BarbeChenue

    BarbeChenue Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2018
    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    50
    (Hopefully they fixed that Mobile phone bug...)

    Here's an attempt to quick fix the list according to suggestions. I'm not a fan of the ML Swiss (Surprise Shot HMG with enemy at -12 is very nice indeed), thought I might be convinced...

    This is still Nisse
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]8 [​IMG]2
    JOAN OF ARC Lieutenant Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, AP CCW. (1 | 51)
    SWISS GUARD HMG / Pistol, AP CCW. (2 | 68)
    NISSE HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 34)
    MONSTRUCKER Submachine Gun, Chain Rifle, Drop Bears / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
    HELOT MILITIAMAN Submachine Gun, Light Rocket Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 9)
    REGULAR (Minelayer, Sensor) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 14)
    REGULAR (Minelayer, Sensor) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 14)
    BOLT (Killer Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun, E/Mauler / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21)
    FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    BOLT (Chain of Command) Combi Rifle + Light Shotgun, Drop Bears / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]2 [​IMG]2
    TECH-BEE (Remote Assistant Level 1, Specialist Operative) Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
    WARCOR (360º Visor) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)
    AUXILIA (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle + AUXBOT_1 / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    [​IMG] AUXBOT_1 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4)
    TRAUMA-DOC Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
    PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)

    6 SWC | 299 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
  9. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2017
    Messages:
    3,532
    Likes Received:
    4,594
    Well, this is the kind of thing I WAS running in Vanilla:

    PanOceania
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10 [​IMG]1
    AUXILIA (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle + AUXBOT_1 / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    [​IMG] AUXBOT_1 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4)
    AUXILIA (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle + AUXBOT_1 / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    [​IMG] AUXBOT_1 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4)
    REGULAR (Minelayer, Sensor) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 14)
    REGULAR (Minelayer, Sensor) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 14)
    FUSILIER Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    FUSILIER Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 18)
    HEXA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 27)
    KRAKOT RENEGADE 2 Chain Rifles, Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 14)
    NISSE HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 34)
    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]7 [​IMG]1
    BULLETEER Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 23)
    MACHINIST Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    TRAUMA-DOC Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
    PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    PATHFINDER DRONBOT Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16)
    FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    TECH-BEE (Remote Assistant Level 1, Specialist Operative) Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
    NISSE MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 34)
    5.5 SWC | 300 Points
    Open in Infinity Army

    But with my focus on Acon now I haven't had a chance to test all the sweet new things.
     
  10. SmaggTheSmug

    SmaggTheSmug Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2018
    Messages:
    497
    Likes Received:
    753
    Frankly I don't see that much synergy between Monstruckers and Joan. For a cheap Order you can just get a Fusilier (even a Fusilier Specialist for 1 pt less) and Monstrucker looks like the kind of units that uses Orders rather than sharing them. Sure, it's always an option to make them regular, but I think it's going to be a bit wasted 90% of the time.
     
  11. Rocker

    Rocker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2018
    Messages:
    115
    Likes Received:
    58
    I usually run a machinist in my Joan lists. The Monstrucker is a 2p discount, with +1WIP, so what's not to like?
     
  12. SmaggTheSmug

    SmaggTheSmug Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2018
    Messages:
    497
    Likes Received:
    753
    What I meant is that I don't see Joan as necessary to get 100% out of Monstrucker, unlike Warcor, Tech-Bee or ABH when they were Irregular (kinda wish they would still be).
     
    Deltervees likes this.
  13. BarbeChenue

    BarbeChenue Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2018
    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    50
    A Climbing Plus specialist with Dropbears, SMG and a Chainrifle? That's exactly what I need to follow my TAGs around, or find an unusual path to fix my Isolated troopers.
     
    Section9 likes this.
  14. Judge Dredd

    Judge Dredd Well-Known Member
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2018
    Messages:
    851
    Likes Received:
    1,267
    He can chase down the Tik when it breaks down on a roof
     
  15. Cartographer

    Cartographer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    738
    Likes Received:
    1,216
    Well, with drop bears you don't ever feel bad for using his irregular order as you'd certainly have spent a couple on him anyway, if only to mine the area in front of the DZ.
     
    Karmano and AdmiralJCJF like this.
  16. Arkhos94

    Arkhos94 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,572
    Likes Received:
    1,502
    Question to the vanilla player : now Pano have access to the bolt CoC, are you thinking of playing one of the "active lieutenant" to benefit from their lieutenant order :
    - TAG (Jotum, Squalos)
    - specialist knight (De Fersen, Santiago)
    - non specialist knight with heavy weapon (Joan, Father knight)
    - pain in the ass (zulu cobra jammer lieutenant)
     
    Mikes likes this.
  17. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    4,002
    Likes Received:
    4,661
    Why would you like to use Fersen or Father Knight ?o0

    Jaon get bonuses for Irregular spam and free coordiantion (usefull when there are no links).
     
    Superfluid likes this.
  18. Arkhos94

    Arkhos94 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,572
    Likes Received:
    1,502
    De fersen : specialist lieutenant with good WIP and good weapon. It looks very likable once CoC remove the LoL risk. Am I too optimistic regarding his use ?

    Father knight : no idea of his use, that's why I ask
     
    Mikes likes this.
  19. BarbeChenue

    BarbeChenue Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2018
    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    50
    I think the question is mostly relevant for a TAG Lieutenants vs. the cost of running Joan. She's still ~50pts, and you may *also* want to run a CoC with her. So TAG + Joan + Jotum is ~190pts. Doesn't leave enough points, IMHO.
     
  20. Lieutenant

    Lieutenant PanOceanic Dabbler

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2019
    Messages:
    116
    Likes Received:
    69
    He’s expensive and for what?
     
  • About Us

    We are a company founded in 2001 in Cangas (Spain), and devoted to design and manufacture games and figures. Our main product, Infinity the Game, was born with the ambition to satisfy the most demanding audience, offering the best quality.

     

    Why are we here?

     

    Because we are, first and foremost, players.

  • Quick Navigation

    Open the Quick Navigation