I've seen a few of these things pop up and as a player with less than a full year in game I'm sure there are a few more out there I have missed. What are some interactions that simply break the game or are super awkward if not house ruled? **Keep in mind some of these things might be fairly clear in the rules but very counter intuitive or awkward on the table.** To start off from what I see so far we have: - Dismounting as anything other than the first short skill - Engage sticking people to walls - Schrodinger's Koala - Hackable Holo Echos with Hacker Camo Markers (hackable echos in general) -Hacker and stealth combined with Link teams - TAG pilots in general, between states and counting as dead/not dead if TAG is null... - Stealth in general seems to come up in a lot of rules discusions/counter intuitive play - Jammers "how do they work?" - Bikes/Prone and Ladders - Impetuous and jumping to deaths... - Bikes from Booty becoming Immobilized during deployment - Smoke Dodge needs a new less confusing term
I was going to make something similar to this, but I thought there was talk of making a different subsection of the rules forum for "fixes", if you will. I guess just highlighting them is appropriate here, though.
What a good idea. Can we also debate How effective a house rule/fix might be as well as point out other interactions? I don't expect this to be a much liked thread as criticism is often seen as an attack but it is right up my alley.
yeah dont get the mine/koala argument, You have to declare it if its close to being ZOC, if its out when you check then nothing happens, if its in it detonates
I think that is referring to this thread: https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threa...with-these-self-destructive-little-ones.1410/
It was more about the Koala than mines (those at least seem fairly binary and clear if not a little awkward), after reading that thread macfergusson linked I'm more confused about the edge cases than I was before I read it haha.
Not a problem as the Pilot's Profile is used for the entirety of the Order when Dismounting. You'll only shoot yourself in the foot if you'd Idle+Move( including a Dismount) since it opens you up for unopposed AROs. As far as Mounting a TAG is concerned, people seem to forget a lot that the TAG will be declaring the Order and the Pilot needs to already be in basecontact. Nasty trick, but indeed entirely legal (albeit frowned upon). IMHO there was a lot of confusion because ijw had a slip of mind regarding how Disposable works for Perimeter Weapons. (https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threa...estructive-little-ones.1410/page-3#post-22316) That seems clear in the Pilot rules The Pilot of an Unconscious Vehicle or TAG is not considered either as a survivor or a casualty for Victory Points, Retreat! or any other purposes. To be awarded i.e. a Specialist Kill for a TAG pilot it is necessary to kill the TAG entirely, Unconscious is not enough. If I missed what you meant, care to elaborate? Oh and a few contributions to your list. 1. ZOC Shenanigans to force a Change Facing ARO against the first Short Skill. 1.1 Move/Idle+BS Attack with a MSV2+ Trooper in Smoke and ZOC of an enemy. 1.2 Move/Idle out of LOF but in ZOC (around at Corner or in the backarc) to freely Engage/Move with the 2nd Short Skill. 2. Voluntarily cancel Stealth or a Marker State (i.e. Camo) to force an ARO against the first Short Skill of the Order to deny the Target the chance to Delay ARO. This makes it for example impossible to use Breakwater AROs without Sixth Sense. 3. Hit models with Templates through other targets. 3.1 Shooting i.e. an Unconscious trooper with a Shotgun to hit a Camo Marker or hard to hit troop without any negative MODs. 3.2 Position the Attacker in a way to hit secondary Models that are outside of LOF, especially nasty with the cone shaped Shotgun templates combined with the extra range they have over DTWs. 4. Using G:Sync/G:Servant troops no engage in CC (mostly with a Servant carrying an Eectric Pulse) to force the opposing trooper to pick inbetween using his ARO against the Controller or the Servant. This allows either Controller or Servant to get an unopposed BS or CC Attack.
1. Infinite distance boost Koalas. Seriously, just teleport the fuckers. 2. 'I move my Holo 1 model (which is hackable but doesn't look it) within 8" of a Camo token (which is a hacker)'. This requires serious 'gentlemanly' play to resolve without annoying Gotchas. 3. Link teams consisting of a Stealthed HI/Hacker + non-stealthed LI (with or without Comms Equipment) activating inside a repeater. Both solutions screw over different troops, are non-intuitive and mutually exclusive. 4. Shooting things in the back from in front. Abusing it is basically the only thing that could convince me to stop playing intent: here, I'm going to perfectly slice the pie with a Super Jumping Seraph to shoot you in the back over that wall.... let's just PIALs please... 5. Starting or ending a Cautious Move within ZOC of a Repeater. A Repeater is a Marker, your Cautious Move fails, it doesn't matter that nobody agrees with us Nomads on this one :P @Teslarod your 1,3 and 4 are IMHO features not bugs. Particularly 1 and 4: it's the only reason Pups are decent.
Made some edits and will continue to as needed. I'm not just looking for things that break the game but also rules that if played RAW are really odd or awkward. Those things that when you show them to a new player they have a negative reaction to or that spawn endless rules debates.
Not really a rules issue but anyone else get annoyed that climbing a ladder is not climbing at all? Also did going prone on a ladder ever get sorted out to not provide cover? Bikes going up ladders is awkward no mater how you look at it. Do impetuous troops really have to jump to there death? However I have a deep personal hatred for sticking engaging models to the wall. It is such a goofy rule that I doubt many TO's would enforce it. Also It really makes engage as an aro pretty pointless for everyone most of the time.
I don't see any of these as game breaking. The engage rule exploit is just douchebagery. It doesn't belong in this game. I would never do it. The rest you should just come to a gentlemen's agreement within your community on how you want to play it.
I agree to the point when reasonable people play together in a unified community. As dlfleetw points out, many metas are forced to engage each other in tournament scenarios (mine regularly plays against a city 3 hours drive away) and while some agreements might be universal some may not causing conflict...
To be honest... cocerning all rules questions just use common sense. I play for a bit more than a year myself and in over 10 tournaments and numerous matches I have only experienced ONE situation where I thought "man, this is weird". This was the dodge rule and the fact, that you have a malus in saturation zones but dodge unmodified in zero vis zones. But: - Koalas work fine. Neither me or my enemies had an issue and all my lists have Koalas. Even Boost is crystal clear. - You need to get used to Stealth, but the mechanic is quite logic. - There have been many clarifications for TAG pilots. They are fine. - Prone while climbing... who even thoughts about this? :D Try to climb prone in reality. Rules and reality say NO. - Bikes and Ladders... same like prone climbing. The ladder is never wide enough for a bike base and climbing isn't allowed. - Impetuous jumping to deaths? Why would you? You are responsible for the deployment of your impetuous troops. ;) And since you are not allowed to measure the distances it can happen, but then it should be that way.
What exactly stops you from climbing prone though? Especially with climbing plus that allows you to move along walls with any movement? Reality is poor reference in a game that causes like 30 temporal paradoxes per game turn. I agree that most rules are written rather well thought. And jumping to one's death is not the most weird thing with Impetuous.
