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What does JSA do better than other factions?

Discussion in 'Japanese Secessionist Army' started by Shatidox, Jun 5, 2018.

  1. Maksimas

    Maksimas Heavy Infantry Addict Maxim

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    That's a rather interesting list and match honestly.
    Cool stuffs.
     
  2. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant

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    Definitely. I have to stay flexible with moving either of those units to Group 1 if they need more Orders. If I don't need the Hacker for button-pushing missions, it can also be ditched for more Orders for Group 2.

    Much of the time, the Oniwaban doesn't end up needing many orders. Often, he either removes a key threat that comes near him, or moves his chunk of points into a Quadrant for crucial zone scoring. Much of the heavy lifting in combat is done with Saito, just because his Smoke and EXP CCW make him more flexible and universally applicable than an Oniwaban.

    For Yojimbo, I rarely make a point of using him for combat unless the opportunity is clearly there. I rarely start a turn saying "this round, I'm going to use Yojimbo." Usually he dispenses smoke, puts his Koalas somewhere helpful, and projects a threat, and none of those require intensive Orders (usually his Impetuous and Irregular are enough to fill this role.) If I need him as a melee missile, there are ways to give him more Orders easily enough.

    And you got it, the unlinked Keisotsu and spare Keisotsu serve as decoys, often placed in separate areas of the table to make the opponent think about it.

    The Keisotsu + Kempetai link and Ryuken-9 duo provide very good gunfighting at a variety of ranges. If the opponent maximizes total cover, smoke, etc. to defend against them, it opens opportunities for the melee units. If the melee units are anticipated, the firepower can help clear a path and do work. The Hidden Deployment is very helpful for keeping the opponent very slightly off-balance; melee becomes more useful if the position of CC experts isn't telegraphed to the opponent.
     
    #42 barakiel, Jun 22, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2018
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  3. Fyeya

    Fyeya Yakitori over a light flamethrower

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    I like seeing these different styles of list - I admit I'm still a fan of the samurai over our infiltrators, on fluff, if nothing else. I just like the designs of our HI a lot, and it matches my playstyle I think - rapid hammer blows over fragile scalpels. I want something that can take a bit of bad luck and keep going - mostly because I roll heinously.
     
  4. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant

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    Yeah I like finding a playstyle and developing the theme for it. In this case, I have a strategic consulting firm that fronts for a ninja clan. My Yojimbo mini isn't the Mifune look-alike... She fits the look and theme of the clan, and has been given a hardened Lhost because they want her in a more visible role of shock and Sabotage compared to sneaking around in TO.

    JSA is producing a ton of variety in list building. I really like that.
     
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  5. Káosz Brigodéros

    Káosz Brigodéros Vanguard, Inc.

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    "The shortest way to victory is always trapped." - Sun Tzu
    Seriously, thanks for the list I like it a lot!
     
  6. Fyeya

    Fyeya Yakitori over a light flamethrower

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    Same.

    Mine is an asteroid mining corporation out of Human Edge, so their work in vacuum makes them highly experienced with power suits, leading to a high adoption rate of Heavy Infantry armor, and since they use a lot of Remotes for mining, they usually field a high compliment of kameel model baggage bots and yaokongs.

    Thus, my force is primarily based around HI/Rems with support - My Shikami isn't so much a ninja as a skilled zero-G operator.
     
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  7. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Well done, sir!
     
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  8. TanakoSkyler22

    TanakoSkyler22 Varunan Diplomat

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    Not sure if anyone mentioned this yet, but one thing that gets overlooked is how prevalent Shock ammunition is on a good amount of movements. Either built-in or putting up Assisted Fire on one of your remotes, which helps against removing things with dogged and NWI. Also the fact V: Courage allows you dictate when you want to fall back and/or retreat, and ignore most rules of retreat if needed (though keep in mind you still suffer LoL that comes from retreat, so have some command tokens to fall back on for the final turn of objective grabbing if you can pull it off).
     
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  9. Teslarod

    Teslarod when in doubt, Yeet

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    The dynamic of JSA vs opposing Smoke is very, very interesting so far. Free Smoke from your opponent blocking huge areas of the table to zip across the table with Yojimbo or to instantly abuse with a conveniently close TO troop isn't something I was consciously aware of a couple months before.
    You really start noticing how much that does for you when a Makaul feels smug for critting his Eclipse Smoke ARO and you proceed to pump 15 Orders into Movement + CC, killing 2 Triads and a Rasail with the dynamic duo of Saito and Yojimbo. It's virtually impossible for your opponent to see that coming.
    The best defensive measures against it are Koalas and Mines, which can easily be countered by Yojimbo's own Koalas. Additionally you'll probably be running one or two Ryuken SMG and a Keisotsu ML which helps funneling your opponent into an enclosed space where you can hop from warm body to warm body.

    Playing against JSA is weird, they don't threaten you with extremely capable gunfighters or toys like Mutts, they're just average at best. Their gunners are usually cheap, fragile, mid range stuff. Still, to get rid of them reliably is going to require something much nastier than them and even then there are probably 3 or more of them spread across the table.
    There is always the looming threat of TO Infiltrators jumping out of thin air that keeps you on edge, makes you a tad bit nervous and ultimately forces mistakes.
    You can't really prevent their CC from killing some of your stuff if you want to make any plays. Their Specialists are some of their best fighters and pretty elusive on top. There isn't a specific troop you need to kill or a specific criteria you need to meet to put JSA in a bad spot, they're flexible in their ability to approach things. Most JSA lists have enough Orders to stomach a couple losses no problem, they're great at alphastriking and have decent AROs as well as enough Mines and Koalas to make them good at defending. Hacking is not an issue for JSA unless you want it to be and if you want an agressive gunner the Oyoroi packs a lot of punch for a Faction lacking that option otherwise.

    Somehow JSA don't need half their troop choices and still manages to be versatile. I have yet to run Domaru, Tanko, Daiyokai, Karakuri Lu Duan, Yuriko, Kuroshi Rider or Mushashi since their move to NA2. Somehow I doubt I'll ever will as I don't see any use for most of those. They're not necessarily bad, but other things simply do more for you. Tanko for instance are neat and I'd certainly run them in Ikari. Mushashi, Domaru, Shikami and Daiyokai suffer from starting out in your DZ as well as not bringing Smoke, Marker State or the ability to fight at range appripriate for their price tag.
    Overall JSA is undeniably in a good place.

    Here is some of the stuff I've used for reference

    Secondary Direct Action oriented list. Mostly against zero/low Hacking lists like Tohaa, Ariadna, MO etc. Coming from PanO I can tell you the Oyoroi is a dream to put on the board. Stealth, CC good enough to use offensively, DAM16 AP HMG for straight faced door kicking, a full blown HFT and Koalas to make this murderbot punch like a heavy TAG, with loads of tactical options, astonishing staying power yet still completely expendable after 1 turn use. With Smoke and a list chock full with cheap support for it I can honestly not recommend it enough. As usual for TAGs it only works if the table allows moving/hiding a S7 Silhouette properly and probably will not be very fun to run against heavy Hacking.

    [​IMG] Yo
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    [​IMG] O-YOROI AP HMG + Heavy Flamethrower, CrazyKoalas / EXP CCW. (2 | 86)
    [​IMG] KEMPEI (Multispectral Visor L2) Shock Marksman Rifle / Pistol, CCW, Electric Pulse. (1 | 25)
    [​IMG] KEISOTSU Missile Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 14)
    [​IMG] KEISOTSU Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] KEISOTSU Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] KEISOTSU Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] KEISOTSU Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] KEISOTSU Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] KEISOTSU Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 9)
    [​IMG] RYŪKEN (Forward Deployment L2, ODD) Submachine Gun, Antipersonnel Mines, D-Charges / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0.5 | 24)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]5 [​IMG]2 [​IMG]1
    [​IMG] SAITO TOGAN (Specialist Operative) Combi Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, EXP CCW, Knife. (0 | 40)
    [​IMG] YOJIMBO Contender, Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades, CrazyKoalas (2) / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 21)
    [​IMG] PANGGULING (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    [​IMG] PANGGULING (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    [​IMG] CHAĪYÌ Yaókòng Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    [​IMG] WARCOR (Aerocam) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)
    [​IMG] KEISOTSU Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    Unhackable allrounder list with a lot of boardcontrol. By far my favourite combination of things about JSA.
    [​IMG] That's some nice Hacking you got there, would be a shame if something happened to it.
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    [​IMG] SAITO TOGAN (Specialist Operative) Combi Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, EXP CCW, Knife. (0 | 40)
    [​IMG] KEMPEI (Multispectral Visor L2) Shock Marksman Rifle / Pistol, CCW, Electric Pulse. (1 | 25)
    [​IMG] KEISOTSU HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 17)
    [​IMG] KEISOTSU Missile Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 14)
    [​IMG] KEISOTSU (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    [​IMG] KEISOTSU (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    [​IMG] KEISOTSU Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] KEISOTSU Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 9)
    [​IMG] RYŪKEN (Forward Deployment L2, ODD) Submachine Gun, Antipersonnel Mines, D-Charges / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0.5 | 24)
    [​IMG] RYŪKEN (Forward Deployment L2, ODD) Submachine Gun, Antipersonnel Mines, D-Charges / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0.5 | 24)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]5 [​IMG]1 [​IMG]1
    [​IMG] ONIWABAN Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Monofilament CCW. (0 | 41)
    [​IMG] RYŪKEN (Forward Deployment L2, ODD) Submachine Gun, Antipersonnel Mines, D-Charges / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0.5 | 24)
    [​IMG] YOJIMBO Contender, Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades, CrazyKoalas (2) / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 21)
    [​IMG] TOKUSETSU EISEI Doctor (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
    [​IMG] KEISOTSU Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] KEISOTSU Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    Gimmick list for the Dark Mist Dire Foe Mission as an example for why Shikami aren't useless but niche. That mission limits everything with LOF requirement to a max of 24". Meaning Spitfires, and Rifles are a lot better than usual while HMGs, MLs and Snipers are a lot less useful.
    [​IMG] Dark Mist
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10 [​IMG]1
    [​IMG] SHIKAMI Combi Rifle / Pistol, DA CCW, AP CCW, Knife. (0 | 47)
    [​IMG] KEMPEI (Multispectral Visor L2) Shock Marksman Rifle / Pistol, CCW, Electric Pulse. (1 | 25)
    [​IMG] KEISOTSU (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    [​IMG] KEISOTSU Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] KEISOTSU Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] KEISOTSU Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] KEISOTSU Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] KEISOTSU Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 9)
    [​IMG] RYŪKEN (Forward Deployment L2, ODD) Submachine Gun, Antipersonnel Mines, D-Charges / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0.5 | 24)
    [​IMG] ARAGOTO Spitfire / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 26)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]6 [​IMG]1 [​IMG]1
    [​IMG] SAITO TOGAN (Specialist Operative) Combi Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, EXP CCW, Knife. (0 | 40)
    [​IMG] NINJA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Tactical Bow / Pistol, DA CCW, Knife. (0 | 29)
    [​IMG] YOJIMBO Contender, Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades, CrazyKoalas (2) / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 21)
    [​IMG] KEISOTSU Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] PANGGULING (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    [​IMG] CHAĪYÌ Yaókòng Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    [​IMG] PANGGULING (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)

    3.5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
    #49 Teslarod, Jun 23, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2018
  10. Torres

    Torres Well-Known Member

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    @barakiel @Teslarod

    Could you tell me if you sometimes wish to have more than 3-4 specialists?
     
  11. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant

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    Load up in Keisotsu FOs. 10 points is basically as cheap as it's gonna get, but you get what you oay for with BS10, WIP12. The flash pulse is the best part of that package.

    Otherwise, you are basically going quality over quantity with JSA. The Aragoto KHD is basically the most order efficient specialist ever if you can clear a path for him. I'm not crazy about the value of the Ninja KHD or the FO relative to their cost, but they exist. The Weibing is fairly cheap, quite fast and generally useful.
     
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