Laser Pointers

No, you're not measuring anything, unless the laser has a built in range finder. You're checking line of fire, which is open information.

 

To put it very mildly, this is a bit of a debated topic. Personally I tend to play that lasers come out after you've already eyeballed it, and completed your move, and there's still a question that needs to be double-checked.

 

For what it's worth, I've yet to meet anyone in the UK with anything against it, but as you say, bringing it up before you start is the best way :)

 

Same here in Canada, found laser pointers are all over the place at all times in games at the FLGS as well as major tournaments.

 

Lol, spill over from the intent thread, nice.

Can anyone cite where the rules actually say pre-measuring is not allowed? I'm talking about a blanket statement that's general enough to cover something like this. All I can find are instances where the rules tell us when/how we're allowed to measure distances (effectively creating the "no premeasuring rule").

Furthermore, what is the rationale that using a laser pointer/line is "measuring" anything, rather than simply determining a relationship that's explicitly open information?

I can't believe this is even a thing.

 

Consider that the rules ask both players to provide LoF cheking. And that while you cannot measure distances before declaring orders, you can plan ahead, thus checking the firelanes of a position and which things you can see from there (and thus see you, and by things I mean markes, models, etc...).

For what is worth, in Madrid (Spain) we all use the laser pointers all the time, and I personally use a "construction" one (that draws a line, and has inbuilt "inclination sensors" AKA bubble inside liquid XD), I usually do it (carefully) from my side of the table to indicate LoF of my troops, who I wanna shoot, etc... so we don't have to move around (but in tournaments I prefer to go easy, so most times you don't need the laser to check stuff).

 

Exactly that plus permissive ruleset thingie, and also design intentions given away by rules like Cautious Movement that have "failing to reach safe destination" clause which would be completely obsolete if you could pre-measure everything.

But the latter one isn't technically RAW, so...

 

I've found something like this:

http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Distances_and_Measurements

 

Don't skip the context. That entire section of the rules talk about measuring distance. Might sound like trivial context, but as has been proven it has become important in this debate.

 

Using a laser pointer isn't premeasuring since no data on distance is given back to the user (Unless it's one of those fancy range finding ones but that would be obvious).

Laser pointers allow LOS/LOF to be clarified and as this is open information at all times I don't see how there could be any issue with using them.

Just don't shine them in your opponents eyes to blind them I guess, that's not how flash pulse is supposed to work.

 

@Mahtamori - I didn't. I answered Todd about general statement about pre-measuring, not the original question about laser pointers - hence the quotation. I don't believe using laser pointers is measuring.

 

In general, I'd say using "measure" to describe using a line laser to determine line of sight is lazy use of the English Language since it doesn't tally up a quantity. It just doesn't fit any of the formal definitions of measurement unless you go the extra mile to define having versus not having line of fire as an actual quantity (which unless you're making a computer game where it'd be obscured anyway is... a very... odd... way of defining things).
However, I do note that it's against the rules (if we take the red box out of context) to make tallies before the end of an order; so you're not allowed to count army points before the resolution of an order, for technical reasons you're not allowed to sing before the resolution stages of an order and you're not allowed to take actions that would work towards accomplishing a plan before the resolution steps of an order.
@Pietras404 fair enough

Funnily enough, not against the Concilium Convention (but almost kind of against the International Laws of War)

 

Considering how many concilium convention banned stuff Aleph fields, not to mention the everpresent Chain Rifles, I'd say "banned by the Concilium Convention" means "you shouldn't use it because it's so awesome only us should use it" XD

 

Tbh my first guess was that this thread was a flash pulse question.

Just Aleph? Pretty much for every banned weird Aleph gizmo there is a mundane analog in use of everyone else that is also banned by Consilium Convention. See ex.: mines.

 

Nah, it's just that Aleph has them ALL... the rest of the factions have just some... but considering the Chain Rifle is banned, yet present in all factions... XD

 

Aleph isn't O-12, though.
Also, we do know that we're playing at a time when CC has been suspended due to CA.

 

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Besides what is a war crime or two between friends?