It was my ignorance of list building to not have any SWC. I read an article, "Mag's Rules for Listbuilding", and saw that it mentioned SWC points. Still not really sure how /what they are, i'm still reading thru the rules and defination on the wiki doesn't really explain them, and have my first matchup tomorrow night with a vet player. I have never played before, so it was my first list, my revised list is below: Tyro List ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 7 1 KEISOTSU Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11) KEISOTSU Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 9) KEISOTSU Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9) TOKUSETSU KOHEI Engineer Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14) DAIYŌKAI Red Fury, Panzerfaust / Pistol, DA CC Weapon, AP CC Weapon. (1 | 49) KEMPEI Spitfire / Pistol, CCW, Electric Pulse. (1 | 23) KUROSHI RIDER Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower / Breaker Pistol, AP + Shock CCW. (0 | 33) 3 SWC | 148 Points Open in Infinity Army
SWC is a secondary points limit that determine how many "real" guns you can bring. Things like HMGs and sniper rifles - weapons that have higher damage, higher burst, and better rangebands. These are usually your active turn pieces, models that actively kill the opponents models. They can also be used defensively in ARO in some cases. I would change it so the Kuroshi is your LT and not the Keisotsu. just an FYI
I would swap up to the Keisotsu missile and Red Fury. Chain of Command lets you play the bike more aggressively . Japanese Secessionist Army ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 7 1 DAIYŌKAI Red Fury, Panzerfaust / Pistol, DA CC Weapon, AP CC Weapon. (1 | 49) KUROSHI RIDER Lieutenant Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower / Breaker Pistol, AP + Shock CCW. (0 | 33) KEISOTSU Missile Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 14) KEMPEI (Chain of Command) Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, CCW, Electric Pulse. (0 | 21) KEISOTSU Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9) KEISOTSU (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) TOKUSETSU KOHEI Engineer Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14) 2.5 SWC | 150 Points Open in Infinity Army I would honestly drop the engineer (I am not sure why you have it) to get a full 5 man Keisotsu link.
I just put him in to fill up points. I only have three Keisotsu's from the box, but I could proxy. I like this list
I think small teams that don't take up your SWC have a place especially in low point games. But unless you have units like the Rui Shi that are asking to have the SWC shifted on to them there's not much need.
Do you have the Kaizoku Spec-Ops? That's a perfectly okay proxy for an extra keisotsu. The Heavy Rocket Launcher Ryuken is also a reasonable proxy for the Missile Keisotsu.
Steep learning curve. I'm talking EVE Online steep learning curve, too. But they are a lot of fun to use, especially once you decide that it doesn't matter if they live while you're learning how to use them. ====== How embarrassing, I forgot to give the new guy Section 9's 5 rules of thumb for list building(tm)! Orders - You need at least 8x regular orders in your primary combat group. This means that you have no more than 2x Airborne or TO/Hidden Deployment models in that group (or one of each). We're talking JSA now, so that means no more than 2x Hidden Ninjas/Oniwaban (including characters) per combat group. Guns - You want guns with a variety of ranges. Sometimes this will cost you SWC, sometimes it won't, depends on faction and weapon. You win a firefight in Infinity by having your gun at +3 while your target is at -3. So you want combi rifles, shotguns, Spitfires, marksman rifles, snipers, HMGs, everything you can fit in. If you have a variety of guns but haven't spent all your SWC, that's fine. If you don't have a variety of guns and have spent all your SWC, that's a problem. Speed - This isn't pure MOV stat, though Motorcycles and REMs are fast. This really means Airborne Deployment, Infiltration, Mechanized Deployment, and Forward Deployment, in addition to pure speed. This also includes Fireteams and Impetuous models. It will take practice, but ideally you want to pick the model that can do what you need it to within 2-3 orders. Sometimes this will mean moving someone farther away, to put their gun into +3 range. Other times this means moving closer. Specialists - These are the models that can lose you the game. If you don't have specialists, you may not be able to do the mission! Specialists also help keep your troops alive, or keep you in the game after your LT gets killed. I try to have 4 specialists in a list, though I have been known to run 3 in a lost intended for killing things. Doctor, Engineer, Forward Observer, Hacker (regardless of what device), Chain of Command, and even the generic Specialist Operative. Plan - You should have at least a generic plan for what you're going to do. You don't even need to see the table to start formulating a plan, but you should really be choosing mission, laying out the table, and even knowing what faction your opponent is playing before you write your list. I know this is very different from other games, but it's important. Yes, tournaments are different, but you will at least know which missions you're playing before you write your lists. For most tournaments, you can write a "close terrain" list and an "open terrain" list, or a "Tricksy list" and a "kick-ass list". Also, those are not restrictive categories, you can have fast specialists or fast guns. A model that is primarily an ARO piece, like a Total Reaction HMG, can give it's order to a more important model during the active turn, so that's orders and guns (and speed, technically). If you've played WarmaHordes, you're familiar with Play like you got a Pair(tm). Well, Infinity is "Play like you got a Plan(tm)!" There is an optional, 6th Rule of Thumb: Theme - have some kind of idea of what links your various troops together. Let me give you an example of a 'heavy' list, and how I typically use it. I call this a "Samurai 7" theme list, because it's heavily inspired by the Samurai 7 anime: Samurai 7, Japanese Secessionist Army ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 9 1 4 Samurai Kambei (OYAMA Lieutenant) Chain Rifle, E/M Grenades / Breaker Pistol, AP CCW, EXP CCW. (0 | 28) Shichiroji (DOMARU) Spitfire / Pistol, E/M CCW, Shock CC Weapon. (2 | 39) Gorobei (TANKŌ) Flamenspeer, Contender / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 23) Kastushiro (TANKŌ) Blitzen, Submachine Gun / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 23) Heihachi (TANKŌ) Missile Launcher / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 32) Kikuchiyo (O-YOROI) AP HMG + Heavy Flamethrower, CrazyKoalas / EXP CCW. (2 | 86) Kyuuzo (YOJIMBO) Contender, Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades, CrazyKoalas (2) / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 21) Villagers Kirara (KEISOTSU Hacker (Hacking Device)) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 17) Komachi (TOKUSETSU EISEI Doctor (MediKit)) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14) Rikichi (TOKUSETSU KOHEI Engineer) Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14) YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) 6 SWC | 300 Points Here's how it follows the rules of thumb: Orders: 9 Regular orders, plus one X-Imp Irregular. Guns: Got 3 combis, 2 contenders, a Chain Rifle, an SMG, a Missile Launcher, Flammenspeer, Blitzen, and an AP HMG. Speed: Yojimbo and the O-Yoroi are natively fast, and the DoTanko team are order-efficient. The specialists aren't particularly fast, though, which may be an issue for some missions. Specialists: Have a hacker, a doctor, and an engineer, plus one helperbot. None of them are particularly tough, fast, or heavily armed, however. Plan: The force breaks into 4 groups. The DoTanko Core team goes up one side. The O-Yoroi goes up the other. Yojimbo goes where he can, probably to give smoke cover to the O-Yoroi. And the villagers hold the backfield, hacker casts Fairy Dust to protect the HI while doc and engineer can lay down suppression fire if necessary to prevent AD troops from taking down the villagers. Theme: Obviously, this is based on the characters from the Samurai 7 anime. (I will admit that I used to use four Domaru and a single Haramaki, but that's a different discussion and a very different tactical plan) Kambei is a little more skilled than the average Samurai, but not as skilled as Kyuuzo, so Kambei makes sense as Oyama. Shichiroji is Kambei's old partner, so he's also a Domaru. Shichiroji uses a spear instead of a sword, so the Spitfire fits (plus, I wanted another long-range gun). Gorobei is a fallen samurai, he's a street performer. He does tricks like breathing fire, so the Flammenspeer Tanko fits. (Used to use a Domaru profile for him) Heihachi was a combat engineer samurai, so he is the Missile Launcher Tanko. (Used to use a Domaru profile for him, too) Katsushiro is just a kid, but he is earnestly trying, so the Blitzen Tanko seems to be the best fit. (Used to use a Haramaki profile) Kyuuzo is a master swordsman, better than Kambei, so Musashi or Yojimbo are good fits. I went with Yojimbo here, so I could have smoke. Kikuchiyo, the big robot, is the O-Yoroi. (If I was going with the live-action movie for my theme, I'd have to use Yojimbo for Kikuchiyo, who used a nodachi and was played by Toshiro Mifune) Kirara is the water priestess, a hacker seems the best fit for what she does. Rikichi is her protector, but he's also a builder. Engineer. Komachi is the heart of the group, able to raise spirits and bring people back from the depths of despair. Doctor is the best fit, though some lists I wrote I was using her as the helperbot.
Let me give you an example of a 'heavy' list, and how I typically use it. I call this a "Samurai 7" theme list, because it's heavily inspired by the Samurai 7 anime: Samurai 7, Japanese Secessionist Army ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 9 1 4 Samurai Kambei (OYAMA Lieutenant) Chain Rifle, E/M Grenades / Breaker Pistol, AP CCW, EXP CCW. (0 | 28) Shichiroji (DOMARU) Spitfire / Pistol, E/M CCW, Shock CC Weapon. (2 | 39) Gorobei (TANKŌ) Flamenspeer, Contender / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 23) Kastushiro (TANKŌ) Blitzen, Submachine Gun / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 23) Heihachi (TANKŌ) Missile Launcher / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 32) Kikuchiyo (O-YOROI) AP HMG + Heavy Flamethrower, CrazyKoalas / EXP CCW. (2 | 86) Kyuuzo (YOJIMBO) Contender, Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades, CrazyKoalas (2) / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 21) Villagers Kirara (KEISOTSU Hacker (Hacking Device)) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 17) Komachi (TOKUSETSU EISEI Doctor (MediKit)) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14) Rikichi (TOKUSETSU KOHEI Engineer) Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14) YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) 6 SWC | 300 Points Here's how it follows the rules of thumb: Orders: 9 Regular orders, plus one X-Imp Irregular. Guns: Got 3 combis, 2 contenders, a Chain Rifle, an SMG, a Missile Launcher, Flammenspeer, Blitzen, and an AP HMG. Speed: Yojimbo and the O-Yoroi are natively fast, and the DoTanko team are order-efficient. The specialists aren't particularly fast, though, which may be an issue for some missions. Specialists: Have a hacker, a doctor, and an engineer, plus one helperbot. None of them are particularly tough, fast, or heavily armed, however. Plan: The force breaks into 4 groups. The DoTanko Core team goes up one side. The O-Yoroi goes up the other. Yojimbo goes where he can, probably to give smoke cover to the O-Yoroi. And the villagers hold the backfield, hacker casts Fairy Dust to protect the HI while doc and engineer can lay down suppression fire if necessary to prevent AD troops from taking down the villagers. Theme: Obviously, this is based on the characters from the Samurai 7 anime. (I will admit that I used to use four Domaru and a single Haramaki, but that's a different discussion and a very different tactical plan) Kambei is a little more skilled than the average Samurai, but not as skilled as Kyuuzo, so Kambei makes sense as Oyama. Shichiroji is Kambei's old partner, so he's also a Domaru. Shichiroji uses a spear instead of a sword, so the Spitfire fits (plus, I wanted another long-range gun). Gorobei is a fallen samurai, he's a street performer. He does tricks like breathing fire, so the Flammenspeer Tanko fits. (Used to use a Domaru profile for him) Heihachi was a combat engineer samurai, so he is the Missile Launcher Tanko. (Used to use a Domaru profile for him, too) Katsushiro is just a kid, but he is earnestly trying, so the Blitzen Tanko seems to be the best fit. (Used to use a Haramaki profile) Kyuuzo is a master swordsman, better than Kambei, so Musashi or Yojimbo are good fits. I went with Yojimbo here, so I could have smoke. Kikuchiyo, the big robot, is the O-Yoroi. (If I was going with the live-action movie for my theme, I'd have to use Yojimbo for Kikuchiyo, who used a nodachi and was played by Toshiro Mifune) Kirara is the water priestess, a hacker seems the best fit for what she does. Rikichi is her protector, but he's also a builder. Engineer. Komachi is the heart of the group, able to raise spirits and bring people back from the depths of despair. Doctor is the best fit, though some lists I wrote I was using her as the helperbot. [/QUOTE] Domo arigato, this is awesome. The way you created the theme for this, and broke it down for each character is so good. It makes me want to break out my DVD's and watch it again. This thought process of characterization to movies is fun. Makes me think about others like Ninja Scroll, Samurai Champloo, and even Afro Samurai. Play like you got a plan...I like that much better than the haphazardnous of Play like you got a pair. BTW, Samuria 7 is an excellent choice in anime. I'm greatful that I saw Kirosawa's film before I watched the anime. Made it even better.
Douitashimashite. As you can probably guess from my forum handle and avatar, I've also done the same theming for Ghost in the Shell. And Psycho-Pass, Bubblegum Crisis, and a few others.
For exactly one ARO... Sure. But the DA is the gift that keeps on giving for the rest of the reactive turn (or the rest of the game if you don't have a baggage bot).
The Oyama model is by far one of my favorites, I would have bought it anyway, but am so glad he is actually a staple for our armies.
I wish he wasn't so small compared to other domaru, but maybe that is part of his secret power. He is tiny and hard to hit with bullets.