hmm there is no critical section in Shock Special Ammo, what i did find was that it is in BS Attack Result, the rule is simply : Criticals Rolling a Critical means the attack is an automatic success. Unless otherwise specified, each Critical rolled in a BS Attack causes the target to lose 1 point from their Wounds/Structure Attribute without making an ARM/BTS Roll to avoid the damage.
Except it does... http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Special_Ammunition_Chart How would a Shock Ammo critical became a N?
I'll be satisfied when they add something like this: As of right now, we have to assume what CB's intent is/was. The examples like DA and plasma you've cited are moot because those are ONE ammo type, not TWO being combined, with TWO separate rules and TWO seperate rules for when you crit. I'm not arguing you bypass two saves, as that wouldn't be the case.I'm simply remaining skeptical that you would use the E/M rules over shock for some mysterious reason. He might be referring to this, and implying that you don't send whatever you are hitting to dead but rather just knock it unconscious.
Right, so you’re proving my point about people not accepting logical arguments, based on the rules. Also, your image is totally irrelevant to the subject here. This was in response to handle the awkward interaction between Bioimmunity trying to take a BTS save, when the ammo is on the ARM attribute. No? literally cited the rules, their intent is explicitly stated. Just because you refuse the argument, doesn’t give you the right to tell people they’re only making assumptions, when the argument is demonstrably sound. Right. That’s you not understanding your own argument then. All my provided examples are relevant because they explain to you what happens when multiple rolls are involved. I literally explained to you how the rules look if you combined AP+E/M, you’re just not accepting it, for reasons unknown to me. I’ve already stated that the BTS roll happens after the roll of what ever arm roll you take but should you crit when E/M is involved there’s an explicit rule telling you what happens to a crit with E/M involved, the crit is on the E/M, there’s literally no way around that and you can write in capital letters to the cows come home but you’re never gonna crit with that shock weapon, because you’re making a key mistake here. You’re saying that there’s two separate rules from when you crit, which is incorrect. The rules for E/M explicitly states that the effects of E/M hijacks the critical hit and applies it only to that rule, so technically speaking, you’re simply incapable of scoring af critical hit with the shock rule, if E/M is involved.
I don't know if I agree with that interpretation, Zewrath. I can choose to swing with the Shock CCW, which due to Dual Wield also gets EM, or I can swing with the EM CCW, which also gets Shock. You're not auto-failing the roll, there is no roll. Therefore there is no save to fail. The wording on the EM weapon says that it applies the EM effects on a Critical hit. The wording on Shock does not, read the FAQ. I know the Special Ammo chart says it kills 1W models outright on a crit, but the FAQ on the actual rule page just says "causes the target to lose 1 point directly from his Wounds STR Attribute bypassing the usual ARM Roll." Therefore, a critical hit with shock only does 1 damage directly and does NOT apply the shock effects. So knocking a 1W model unconscious, instead of killed outright. I know it's counter-intuitive, but that's what the rules as written say. Hell with it. @ijw , if I crit on a 1W model with a shock CCW, is he knocked Unconscious or killed outright?
You’re not choosing one weapon as the primary, which is then getting an additional weapon as a secondary. They are both at the same time. So it’s not E/M+Shock or Shock+E/M. It’s just both of them, in which case the E/M tells us what the crit effect is applied to. I can’t see argument for any other feasible interpretation which holds up to any scrutiny.
Though Symbiomates can only be put on models that ignore Shock in the first place, so I don't think this argument matters :) (Except Kerail and their Dogged, they'd like to know what happens when they suffer two crits in the same order)
My point is that mates don't work against crits for the same reason Shock doesn't bypass Unconscious on a crit - no save rolls are made to be ignored.
