What happened to the Haramaki Zensenbutai?

Tema en 'Japanese Secessionist Army' iniciado por geniusloci, 19 Mar 2018.

  1. geniusloci

    geniusloci Member

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    May be I missed it, but what happened to the Haramaki Zensenbutai? These were sweet models, but I don't see them in the BoW lists.
     
  2. Yasashii Fuyu

    Yasashii Fuyu Well-Known Member

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    Duuuuuuuuust in the wind...all they are is dust in the wind....
     
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  3. krossaks

    krossaks Well-Known Member

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    They are ALL DEAD, as traitors...
     
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  4. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Evolved to TANKO!!!!!! And now go around with their Musashi-Sensei :p
     
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  5. Yasashii Fuyu

    Yasashii Fuyu Well-Known Member

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    Brutal fact aside:

    From a little comment I think I heard in one of the BoW Videos the Haramaki somehow died in the defense of the Japanese Nation during the Uprising...why exactly the Haramaki of all the potential options did so I don't know (other than game design reasons of course) but oh well...

    It is pretty likely that they'll at least partially be reincarnated as the Tanko, though art dossiers seem to indicate they might end up missing some of their iconic loadouts, the missile launcher the most notable among them I guess.....
     
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  6. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Part of reimagining the sectorial, I suppose. Haramaki 5-man Missile Launcher were one of the most effective and reliable way of dealing with almost any ARO threat other than linked or ODD equivalent snipers, so possibly they were a bit too long ranged.
     
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  7. geniusloci

    geniusloci Member

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    That's reasonable explanation, and a part of my grief over their disappearance.

    Or they got old and got promoted.
     
  8. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant

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    Haramaki were amazing. They were also somewhat at odds with the rest of the Bushi-type units, since Haramaki were so good for sitting faaaaar in the pack with their missiles and Blitzens. I'll miss them as a JSA player, but I won't miss them as a JSA opponent; cheap heavy infantry with devastating one-hit weapons was tough to crack.

    My big question now though is whether JSA has the long-range firepower/smoke necessary to close the distance and let the Domaru, Tanko, etc. do their work up close. At least the missile was a good weapon you could toss into a mixed link to encourage opponents to keep their heads down, letting you run up close. Now I'm not so sure.
     
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  9. Abrilete

    Abrilete Well-Known Member

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    Now JSA will have to rely in the Dayokai Dengekitai (did I write it correctly?) linked with Domaru (can bring Spitfire) and the Keisotsu Core (BS 14 HMG, not bad) for long-range assault. Skirmishers and Infiltrators will have to deal with dangerous ARO's so the rest of the troops can advance.
     
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  10. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant

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    I hear you. The Daiyokai is getting more appealing to me, though I don't know that it qualifies as long-range. Same for the Domaru Spitfire, who i think is pretty costly (2 SWC for a BS12 Spitfire is insane.) Keisotsu will continue to be a workhorse of the faction, even with BS13 (like Domaru@BS12, literally the worst in the game for their unit category, but we make do with what we have.)

    This remains my major question... Can JSA, with its limited long range and limited smoke, buy itself enough room to get into close range? It's one more reason that Oniwaban are very important to how the lists functions.
     
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  11. dulydude

    dulydude Active Lurker

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    Hopefully we will still see Bliztens on the Tankos

    The forward deploying section 9 should be able to aid in this a bit, hopefully
     
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  12. Dyne

    Dyne Well-Known Member

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    Unit-9 doesn't have smoke grenades and it doesn't have any long (or mid) range weapon. How can unit-9 help to get into CC?
     
  13. Yasashii Fuyu

    Yasashii Fuyu Well-Known Member

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    By opening up potential routes to advance through? If that pesky sniper on that roof is killed by a forward deployed Unit 9, your Domaru Fireteam can advance much easier...
     
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  14. Dyne

    Dyne Well-Known Member

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    Kill a sniper inside her deployment zone with a SMG....I don't see it.
    Ninja, Oniwaban, Saito or Shinobu can do it much better than unit-9.
     
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  15. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Most Snipers don't have MSV, the SMG isn't useless outside of 8" and those mines can be deployed to discourage skirmishers from interfering. It's not an expensive unit and it offers a good toolbox. Time will tell exactly how good Unit-9 is, but I strongly suspect they will be one of the best 20's Light Infantry (which means that most 30+ infantry will be a bigger asset, though not in the same way, but that's why you pay more for them)
     
  16. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    ODD FOs are stupid good. Compare Pi-well vs a core-linked Alg ML under 24".

    Π-Well - Forward Observer vs. Alguaciles - Missile Launcher
    Active Player
    62.64% Π-Well targets Alguaciles for 1 Turn

    Failures
    17.34% Neither player succeeds
    Reactive Player
    20.01% Alguaciles inflicts 1 or more wounds on Π-Well (Unconscious)
    17.34% Alguaciles inflicts 2 or more wounds on Π-Well (Unconscious 2)
    9.39% Alguaciles inflicts 3 or more wounds on Π-Well (Dead)

    Vs MSR isn't as good (getting under 24" is quite practical, getting under 16" reliably requires a marker state).

    Π-Well - Forward Observer vs. Alguaciles - MULTI Sniper Rifle (Anti-Materiel Mode)
    Active Player
    53.15% Π-Well targets Alguaciles for 1 Turn

    Failures
    16.99% Neither player succeeds
    Reactive Player
    29.86% Alguaciles inflicts 1 or more wounds on Π-Well (Unconscious)
    16.67% Alguaciles inflicts 2 or more wounds on Π-Well (Unconscious 2)
    3.26% Alguaciles inflicts 3 or more wounds on Π-Well (Dead)

    So 2 x Ryuken-9 FOs + something to drop the hammer isn't a bad option.

    Even 'just SMGing' them at 16-24" isn't awful:

    Custom Unit - Submachine Gun (Shock Mode) vs. Alguaciles - Missile Launcher
    Active Player
    45.22% Custom Unit inflicts 2 or more wounds on Alguaciles (Dead)

    Failures
    37.98% Neither player succeeds
    Reactive Player
    16.80% Alguaciles inflicts 1 or more wounds on Custom Unit (Unconscious)
    14.62% Alguaciles inflicts 2 or more wounds on Custom Unit (Unconscious 2)
    7.91% Alguaciles inflicts 3 or more wounds on Custom Unit (Dead)

    Custom Unit - Submachine Gun (Shock Mode) vs. Alguaciles - MULTI Sniper Rifle (Anti-Materiel Mode)
    Active Player
    45.22% Custom Unit inflicts 2 or more wounds on Alguaciles (Dead)

    Failures
    39.04% Neither player succeeds
    Reactive Player
    15.74% Alguaciles inflicts 1 or more wounds on Custom Unit (Unconscious)
    8.78% Alguaciles inflicts 2 or more wounds on Custom Unit (Unconscious 2)
    0.91% Alguaciles inflicts 3 or more wounds on Custom Unit (Dead)

    Riot Grrls proper fuck you though. But they do that:
    Π-Well - Forward Observer vs. Riot Grrls - Missile Launcher
    Active Player
    43.96% Π-Well targets Riot Grrls for 1 Turn

    Failures
    12.82% Neither player succeeds
    Reactive Player
    43.22% Riot Grrls inflicts 1 or more wounds on Π-Well (Unconscious)
    37.47% Riot Grrls inflicts 2 or more wounds on Π-Well (Unconscious 2)
    22.36% Riot Grrls inflicts 3 or more wounds on Π-Well (Dead)
     
  17. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    @inane.imp I don't think JSA has any ODD FOs, or am I missing something?
     
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  18. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Ryuken-9..... oh wait.... for some reason I thought they were FOs.... nothing to see here, carry on...
     
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  19. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant

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    The x-visor SMG is a very interesting combination of skills. I'm very excited to use it. It's not going to be a high-probability precision piece from 8-24 inches, but most enemies are going to massively struggle to hit back. The unit's going to be Order hungry if it wants to actually kill anything, since both the Ryuken-9 and the defender aren't actually that likely to inflict wounds in the course of an order, but the Ryuken-9 can easily put most enemies at -12 to respond and at least encourage them to duck back to Total Cover or throw smoke, which lets JSA's close-range specialist maneuver and do their thing. I see the appeal, especially if you want to keep your Superior Infiltrators hidden until the right opportunity. It's a very good example of creative unit design.

    I'll be taking two in every list...
     
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  20. TanakoSkyler22

    TanakoSkyler22 Varunan Diplomat

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    From what I gathered from the BoW Infinity week videos, most of the Haramaki were killed off during the uprising (especially during the evacuation of Kuraimori). Hence they got the 'Croc Man' treatment of getting reincorporated into a new regiment. At least that is the 'story' reason for it.

    The other, as others have mentioned, is that the Haramaki were almost too 'cost effect' for what they did in the Samurai link team in the defensive role. I hope they still keep the ML around, but I'd still take them if they are still cheaper than Domaru but had a price rise of one or two points.
     
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