I love the idea that they are the Archer Samurai, still formidable in their own right with a sword but you can tell they put more effort into owning their ranged skills but is this realized enough by the BS13 and chosen weapons? Or, are they and thus us as players content for them to be worth 1-3 orders worth of ARO duty as a mild bullet sponge? And yes I am uncertain of where they shine aside from cost. For me, I think x-visor is 1 point and perfect Samurai sharp shooters. Its already in JSA and doesnt overlap too much with Ryuken as those are harder to shoot, FD or Camo 1 use and mines. Plus, for fun, it would allow the ML to move up the board and make use of both the sword and the Missile interchangeably.
In my experience tanko are great ARO pieces since their weapons are low burst and long range. They are pretty decent at that. Another thing they are great at is using them in coordinated orders to challenge enemy hard AROs since they are cheap the risk is worth it if you don't happen to have a ninja or oniwanban closeby. They can be very deadly in close quarters too, but that's nothing special in JSA. I really like tankos as they are.
I really like them. They are very tightly designed and priced around being cheap HI fireteam fillers with a focus on ARO duty, but that doesn't make them necessarily bad in active either. They can project E/M and Continuous DAM ammo at medium-long range, which is always a risky proposition for your opponent. The only thing that somewhat irks me is that their standout weapons are disposable (2) which somewhat goes against their HI ARO concept, as they will be out of ammo after the first try. Bringing a Panggu EVO/Baggage bot to support the HI fireteam is reasonable, though, so it's not a big deal.
My only complaint is that Flammenspeer is locked behind the Contender. A SMG or LSG + Flammenspeer profile would have been nice
Wow, everyone so far has voted yes for both turns, this makes me have to ask, what defines a gunfighter these days? Also, if someone wanted non disposable and for Tanko to keep the E/M and Fire weaponry at range as mentioned above. Theres a few different ways CB could achieve that, the easiest of which is to slap X-Visor and E/M or Continuous on any other weapon.
I'm gonna go with no. The limitations on ammunition on the big guns and the crappy range or crappy burst on the others mean they're just to easy to outgun or outrange to be good gunfighters
I've seen people argue that Tanko are too good, but never that they need a buff. They are active turn gunfighters by virtue of their low cost and link bonuses mostly. Being sub-20 points they don't exactly need to be a Kriza to qualify, and you'd be surprised at what +1B or +3 BS can do to pretty much any random gun if the expectations are right.
When people mention the price of a unit as cheap, it means they dont care if they lose it. I'm not sure what category I would put that unit in. As far as link bonuses go, I cant say for certain. I just dont like the idea that a linked ARO unit is meant to be cheap enough to lose but losing it means the team is at least temporarily weaker which is not what I would want to risk with the word cheap.
I've seen plenty of people use cheap, throwaway units in links (such as the Ghulam Sniper, or a Tanko) for this exact purpose and pretty frequently. Remember you can always refill the link with another dude or just run it as a three or four if the focus is CC (sorry links, no CC bonus for you)
Right, exactly that is my point, I dont like the idea of Tanko being a 1-2 speed bump. JSA is an order hungry faction so why would I want to give the enemy a ranged kill. I absolutely understand Infinity entails slot of managing losses better than your opponent but since JSA is also limited in the range game, then I'd rather force the opponent to get closer if they wanna kill something so it's less order for me to cut it up. And in the active turn I'd rather have a high burst shooter as the leader. Preferably the MK12 Karakuri or the Dai so I march the team forward knowing with a higher burst in likely to win the F2F or at least negate taking multiple hits and should the leader not take the ARO then I have an opportunity to land panxerfausts on full bonuses. That's just me though. The thing that surprised me so much is how many people say hes a gun fighter when all I've ever seen in all the years I've ever watched this game is high burst or visual mods makes a gun fighter along with the rare BS15.
Yep, lots of room for personal opinion. Gunfighter does not have to mean apex gunfighter, it can be someone who can shoot well enough for the points and role you require of them.
Um, well, I didnt say Apex gunfighter. All one needs if not high stats or mods is just a B4 weapon. Pretty much every linetroop in the game has a B4 weapon. B4 is the basic gunfighter, always has been. I'm also not advocating Tanko get B4. But I definitely didnt even imply apex anything. I wish you hadnt said it as if I had and that you would have remembered that I said high burst. I'm gonna have to walk away from this one. Maybe you didnt mean to twist it but it happened and I'm tired of these forums always going sideways because of stuff like that.
This thread seems to be asking a question about an arbitrary definition and is getting a mix of people talking about that definition or talking about if Tankos are good or not. I'm not sure what's being asked. Tankos are excellent troopers, that's for sure. Definitely are a good argument to play JSA and it's very easy to justify maxing out their AVA. Are Tankos your main active turn gun that will shoot down ARO pieces? Most likely not.
The good active turn guns are the B4s, and Ryuken. The reactive turn gunfighters are the Ryuken, and the Dai or Oyo in SF. Obviously foretwam bonuses augment somethings but to what relative degree against another fireteam...
Not sure you want to leave your OYoroi out in supp to ARO (and even less so the Daiyokai). None of the ARO you listed shoot outside of 24" which is where a 2W HI Missile Launcher is a very good. Enough ARM and Wounds to have a decent shot at surviving and gutsing in cover, good shooting stats and a weapon that can really threaten.
From one DZ to the other, no, that's ritual suicide... and honestly, because the Oyo doesnt have an EXP ARO he's the hardest argument and lastly and this is the more important, because you make a good point, if you're assuming that mentioning any units as an ARO piece implies exactly how it's used as an ARO piece. It doesnt. The best way for anyone to present a defense, if they arent null deploying, especially in the case of JSA, is to have AROs aligned to the corners of buildings that will be used to approach you or to an objective point. To rephrase it, applying multiple AROs to the same focal point along the same LoF, helps mitigate losses and increases your chances of killing the opponents troops in their turn, HD troops not needing to be on the same lines for obvious reasons. Tanko can assist in all this but their not gun fighters, their just cheaper ARO troops with fair cheap weapons and decent CC (decent because NBW+MA/CC(-X) is too prevalent). I dont why I have to explain this to you though, pretty sure you're a veteran player and you would know these things.
Nowhere in the Tanko lore says that they are the Archer Samurai archetype. That is your and your only projection. In fact the lore says that they are a frontline close-combat regiment, very far away from the idea of an Archer. "As per JSA tradition, the new unit was named after their novel armor model, and so the TankÅ was born to uphold the operational role formerly filled by the Haramaki: that of a frontline, close-combat regiment." I will define gunfighter as a piece I rather use my gun to fight than any other mean. Quite literal, but Tanko are not CC pieces, despite not being bad at it. For CC, JSA has Domaru, Oniwabans, Ninjas, Yojimbo, which are far better options than the Tanko. So, when given the choice, I'll choose to shoot with a Tanko rather than try to engage in CC. That's why to me they are primarily gunfighters. Well, JSA is starved for range and the Tanko Missile Launcher can be a good option to fight an HMG (or any reasonable 32" ARO weapon, like HRL and the sort) or a Sniper Rifle, on active! Actually, a Coordinated Order is one of the better solutions, %-wise, for JSA to deal with a linked MSV2 Sniper (it's only a trade tho). But if, by "most likely not" you mean that the Tanko will be probably your plan B or C, because smoke and JSA's Skirmishers (for example) can deal with long range pieces, then we are in agreement.
Eh, you started with the nebulous term "gunfighter". Then asked for definitions, and now get annoyed that alternative definitions to yours exist. I don't know how to engage with you without you considering it some sort of personal attack. Maybe look for the matching factor in all of these instances of the forums "going sideways" and perhaps the situation can be improved.
Ignoring the rest just for this "matching factor"... dont bother responding in this thread anymore, you're just trying start shit.
