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A Primer on Massed Armour Tactics

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by daboarder, Dec 17, 2017.

  1. Maksimas

    Maksimas Heavy Infantry Addict Maxim

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    So how are people feeling about double-TAG lists nowadays in the various factions/sectorials that have more than one TAG?
     
  2. WillJoeBeck

    WillJoeBeck Member

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    I've been running vanilla pan o with Joan and Double Squalo + 2 regular hackers with grenade launchers. Squalos do a great job on ARO. All the grenade launchers let me remove hard to reach hackers and repeaters so my tags can march up the field. It's had a lot of success so far.
     
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  3. SpectralOwl

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    My few games so far have involved an NCA list using an Uhlan and Squalo, it worked quite well thanks to the sheer resilience of the pieces allowing me to be aggressive with them in reactive. I'm yet to play against a Hacking-heavy list yet, however.
     
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  4. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower

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    I worry about the order efficiency of Grenade Launchers as a solution.

    But we have a fair bit of hacking to manage locally.
     
  5. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
    Warcor

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    Double Jotums with liang kai and orders rolls over people. There is not a lot that can effectively threaten 2 fairy dusted Jotums with 15-16 orders
     
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  6. costi

    costi New Member

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    What's in the list besides the 3 models? Fusilier link and Fugazi?
     
  7. herod1204

    herod1204 Knight of Santiago

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    agl3aW50ZXJmb3IAgSwCAQoBLAEBAAIsAQEAAwEBCgAEAQEFAAUBAQEABgEBBQAHAQEBAAgTAQEACRMBAQAKEwEBAAIEAYXcAQEAAiYBAQADJgEBAAQyAQEA

    I would assume that roughly

    Sent from my SM-G780F using Tapatalk
     
  8. Ruaridh

    Ruaridh Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm needs a way to get fairy dust in there still

    Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
     
  9. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
    Warcor

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    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    GROUP 1 8 / 2 / 1
    JOTUM MULTI Heavy Machine Gun, Heavy Flamethrower, Panzerfaust / AP CC Weapon. (1.5 | 87)
    CRABBOT Flash Pulse / CC Weapon. (0 | 0)
    MULEBOT (Hacker, EVO Hacking Device) ( ) / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0.5 | 15)
    MACHINIST Combi Rifle, D-Charges ( | GizmoKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 15)
    PALBOT PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3)
    PALBOT PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3)
    FUSILIER (Hacker, Hacking Device) Combi Rifle ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 15)
    FUSILIER (Hacker, Hacking Device) Combi Rifle ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 15)
    AGNES Submachine Gun, Nanopulser / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 14)
    MULEBOT (Deactivator, Repeater) ( ) / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 8)
    WARCOR (360º Visor) Flash Pulse ( ) / Stun Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3)
    LIANG KAI Chain Rifle, Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse / Pistol, EXP CC Weapon. (0 | 21)
    GROUP 21
    JOTUM (Lieutenant) MULTI Heavy Machine Gun, Heavy Flamethrower, Panzerfaust / AP CC Weapon. (2.5 | 87)
    CRABBOT Flash Pulse / CC Weapon. (0 | 0)
    FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7)
    FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7)
    5.5 SWC | 300 Points
    Open in Infinity Army
     
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  10. Tongfa

    Tongfa ULTRA INSTINCT UKR

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    Cheers - very intimidating list. It's like those Mass Greater Exalted Daemons Lists from 40k - just a wall of meat (or steel in this case) that just runs at you.

    1. Does missing a point for a Liaison Officer ever come up?

    2. Since there is only one source of Fairy Dust (EVO) but two Jotums, is the more aggressively positioned Jotum the one fairy dusted, and is the backline Group 2 one (just assuming, maybe you roll out with both idk) just relying on its native BTS?

    3. Do you ever start one of the Jotums in Suppressive?

    4. Do you ever pop the crab bot out, and like when? TAGs are still very unfamiliar tools for me, so I'm still working around when to use the crabbot functionality?

    5. Do you ever feel the need for a KHD instead of the two basic hackers? With the list, KHD might be hard to fit in since your cheapest KHD is a starting non-marker Nokken at 28 points, so I figured it was the two fusi bodies better than one nokken body logic.

    6. More like a your local meta question, but have you seen people roll out with more anti tank in general in N4? Feel like this list very much punishes folks who still are in the HMG/crit meta (If all you have is rifles/non AP machine guns, then when the Jotum is in cover, I don't see an efficient counterplay)

    Personally, I feel like my lists always err on the side of having more anti-tank than anti-personnel, b/c if it can kill a tank it can kill a person. Not sure if that's the best logic but it's worked so far.
     
  11. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    Fairy dust applies to ALL units of the chosen type. Both Jotums are rocking the WIP-3 BST9+3 from the program.
    you definitely want to be open to the idea of putting one Jotum in SF, particularly if going second, though they also make good long range AROs, mostly its table dependent.
    I use crabbots a lot for scoring, you can still jump out behind the TAG to prevent AROs, so you effectively have an S7 wall you can put in front of objectives when you need.
    With Fairy Dust on the jotum hackers worry me very very little, my hackers are more insurance for a poor possession roll off ect.
    and yes N4 is very Anti-tank focused, Fuerbachs are the primary weapon so far of the edition and K1 is seriously valuable
     
    #71 daboarder, Feb 3, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2021
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  12. Quiet Professional

    Quiet Professional Official, but not too official.

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    I've always liked the massed armour tactics you have written about since N2.

    Does this apply to other factions and sectorials, or does it only work for Pano?

    I was thinking of trying it out with Nomads.
     
  13. SpectralOwl

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    Honestly I think it might be stronger there in Nomads, these days. You've got just as much choice in armour with much more cost-effective supporting pieces. Szallies, Gators and Lizards are all viable MBTs, the Gecko is an enviably cheap light TAG and all the HI is at least as solid as PanO's selection.

    I know in the past I've applied this advice to Yu Jing HI lists as well as PanO dual TAG lists, it's solid stuff.
     
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  14. Quiet Professional

    Quiet Professional Official, but not too official.

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    I thought so. I play-tested a 150 point list, and despite my opponent having 10 orders with LI and a Peacemaker armbot, the supplies mission ended up being a draw. I was second turn, but the survivability of the HI, and the increase in stats, gave me the opportunity to survive and continue with the mission.

    I need to play more to see if massed armour tactics are viable. I think they do anyway.
     
  15. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    Its absolutely viable and not as hard to play as people think. Its also a playstyle Pano is pretty good at. This is a faction that has to brute force its way through all problems so just lean into that. Having more wounds and armor than your opponent can work quite well. The meta is forever obsessed with having as many orders as possible. That enviably leads to lists with a lot of 1 wound low arm models. If played well, massed armor can just outlast your opponent.

    As for other factions, pretty much everyone can run massed armored lists. Theres no reason Nomads can't. I would say Corregidor is probably best at a massed armored list.
     
    #75 Death, Aug 6, 2023
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2023
  16. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    Oh, I should explain while Pano and Nomads are pretty good at massed armor lists. You want HI who are good specalists. Hospitller doctors, Santiago spitfire, and nomad EVAs are all great HI specialists. An added benefit to Pano knights is their CC ability paired with high BS. It gives you an easy answer if the enemy throws smoke to stop your shooting. You can just walk the knights into CC instead.

    Of particular note is Vanilla Pano who has probably the best duo options in the game. Pairing a Knight with a Bulletter or Karhu is pretty great. MO duo and wildcard options are pretty strong as well. Duos tend to be overlook in favor of Haris but they can have their uses.
     
    #76 Death, Aug 8, 2023
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2023
  17. Quiet Professional

    Quiet Professional Official, but not too official.

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    I agree with your comments. Nomads, from what I have been looking at, do tend to have poor Duo's in vanilla. I think the Hollowman Duo is a viable fireteam. Using a spitfire to protect the hacker or specialist operative onto an objective.
    Kriza Borac Duo is too expensive I find when list building.
    The mobile brigada hacker is tough and durable. He played well in my game. Survived multiple template hits from a peacemaker and auxbot. Mainly dodged out of everything into total cover. Evaders are good too. I like the riot grrls, but I find the Frenzy skill a negative because they no longer gain partial cover bonus once they turn impetuous. But the MSV1 is needed depending on the opponent's list. Taskmaster is a close combat brute looking at is profile.

    Anyway, I am having fun playing a HI list. From what I read in the Nomads forum, I may be a heretic using a HI style. While I like hacking, I do prefer to be aggressive and get miniature into the game.
     
  18. Wiredin

    Wiredin Member

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    As a Varuna player, how would you adapt this to a Squalo w/grenades and Cutter list?

    I swapped Liang Kai for Uma, not exactly 1:1, but not bad. good midfield specialist. most of it is the same. I think the EVO hacker is a huge part of this list.

    My usual favorite is Squalo/Patsy as a duo, but my locals are trying to convince me to drop the duo since Patsy seems to cost too much for what she provides. I like the order efficiency and specialist and grenade launching fun with my Duo.
     
  19. Quiet Professional

    Quiet Professional Official, but not too official.

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    https://infinitytheuniverse.com/army/list/gfUGbm9tYWRzB0hJIENvcmWAyAEBAQAIAIGeAQkAAIGeAQEAAIYHAQYAAIF+AQkAAIGvAQcAAIF+AQIAAIGvAQUAAIYgAQIA

    Here is a 200 point list I have been testing. Hopefully it can be viewed in Army7.
    It certainly survives until round 3 when I can get stuck in and complete objectives. I usually lose two or three miniatures before then, depending on the dice.
    It has 14 wounds in total including the Transmutation(W) on the Digger and the NWI on the Evader.

    Main vulnerability is Hacking obviously. Depending on the mission I will swap-out a specialist for a Reverend Healer, or swap-out the missile launcher or HMG for the Grenzer MSR (Marksmanship). It is fun list to play. My opponent plays MO so it is fairly even with her TK Harris and 3x Trinitarians.

    I just need to play more and gain experience with how each trooper works.
     
    #79 Quiet Professional, Dec 28, 2023
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2023
  20. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    While this is a really good thread about TAGs in general it is more specialized for PanOceania TAGs so not all tactics will be applicable.
     
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