Playing around with the new N4 builder has me wondering how viable it will be to run O-Yoroi in comparison to running Daiyokai with the latter seemingly just a better option all around despite the 4-4 MOV. Thoughts?
O-Yoroi looks really playable to me now. The advantages you're getting over a Daiyokai are pretty sizeable. Higher BS, template weapon, significantly higher DAM (DAM16 AP on your primary weapon shreds heavy targets), CrazyKoalas, Tac Aware, higher ARM/BTS, naturally better synergy with the fact that Yuriko is awesome now and an engineer, and one of our last remaining EXP CCW. Honestly, I'm not sure how many other tools we have for dealing with other TAGs besides Oniwabans.
I've always enjoyed running the O-Yoroi, even if he wasn't optimized. Koalas were fun, and when he got a DAM16 AP HMG, he hit pretty hard as well. Hackers were always the biggest threat, but the Koalas mitigated that a little (you want to hack me? Here, have a Koala!), as he couldn't be hacked through repeaters (Stealth). And it's a sweet model. My biggest issue is that the Karakuri are much more optimized. For 12 points more (87), I can take two Karakuri (Mk12 and Multi Rifle (plus a Domaru, Kempei, Yuriko, another Karakuri, etc.) that can shrug off E/M, Adhesive, Flash Pulse, and treat Plasma, EXP, Mono, etc, as normal, and have 3 STR points plus Rem Pres. They took a bit of a hit when they lost effective ARM6, but the fact that I can take something that simply ignores or minimizes every weapon that would seriously threaten the O-Yoroi is hard to justify. High burst TR weapons are the only thing that really scare a Karakuri. I just can't put an O-Yoroi down on the table when I could take the Karakuri instead. Love him, but can't take him and the K's in the same list.
Karakuri take damage from HMGs at nearly twice the rate of the Y-Yoroi, though, so now that they don't have "Bioimmunity" I think the comparison is much more reasonable and I'm leaning towards in favour of the O-Yoroi who also has Stealth and superb adhesive "mines" that you can use to blackmail opponents into choosing bad AROs. O-Yoroi also has something that JSA struggles with, and that's good ranged guns - Karakuri needs some way of getting closer for a few orders before they can start applying their guns where the O-Yoroi can start from the DZ.
I agree with you that the O-Y can start causing problems for the opponent right from the DZ - BS 14 and DAM16 AP HMG is frightening right out to 32". My fear is that any special weapon (E/M, EXP, Plasma, PARA, etc.,) can take out the O-Y with a lucky hit or two, while the Karakuri can shrug off those weapons. The only way to take out the Karakuri is through volume of hits. I'm going to give my O-Y a run on my next few lists, and even try to get him into CC for kicks. DAM18 EXP CC23 MA2 weapon is truly frightening... As we have a solid CoC option as well, it could be fun to run the LT version, so you have the LT order, the TA order, and the rest of your order pool. I always take a Ninja HKD when I run the O-Y as well, as he need protection from hackers. I'll post here when I run him and let you know how it goes! Not sure what you mean that they don't have Bioimmunity - Doesn't Immunity (Total) cover everything?
In N3 they could choose between bts and arm while saving. Now they can't - this option is now in Bioimmunity skill only and karakuri just ignore special traits and so on.
To be fair, the window of time in which Total Immunity worked that way (pick between bts or arm) was for a very exceedingly short window of time. For the majority of their life span in the game, karakuri have been a troop with "just' arm 3 and total immunity and they've been good and viable in all of that time. That total immunity change at the end of N3 simply made them overwhelmingly powerful. With even greater link flexibility in N4 and Total Immunity still better than it was back in N2 and the start of N3, the Karakuri is still quite good.
This is Infinity, everything can and will die. Your opponent will have ways to deal with your Karakuri, they are hardly invincible. I do think the Y-O just provides too much value in N4, where TAGs are a far more cost effective option.
Too much value to ignore. N4 is the first time where every faction with a TAG can seriously consider taking a TAG into an objectives heavy ITS tournament.
And confusing them with Madtraps, though to be honest, I did not read the Koala rules, so i guess they may have changed them to doing adhesive damage.
I think what he meant is they Boost at you, stick to your leg and make you boom like a piece of bubble gum! Haha
Some interesting points, maybe a little more ideal in two list tournaments to have a list with O-Y and the other with Karakuri? If so does the 40pt Karakuri do the job or is better to find the points to run the pricier versions?
Okay cool just checking. Also, o-yoroi has minelayer now. So does this limit the amount of crazy Koalas he can have out at the start of the game?? And if it does not, does this apply to mines as well??
This. I was also thinking of Zhanying profiles at the time of writing, so I wrote the from ammo for them.
