Smoke - Going downward ?

Please please please can we get this in an upcoming FAQ and the wiki, CB?

No smoke down, it's geometrically impossible.

 

Blast focus is the black dot in the centre of the blast template and at the end of the cone on the teardrop templates, it is nothing else and it is used to determine nothing else except the LoF of the template attack, I am not sure if and why this needs to go to the FAQ.

 

Because almost literally everyone tries to stick smoke on knife-edge corners to be clever with smoke cover.

 

This is less about the blast focus and more about that depending on the way you read it, there are ways to argue that LoF could be traced downwards and the blast focus is a big part of that. But the real questions in this thread is:

• Is there any way to throw a grenade in the border of a rooftop so the LoF can be traced downwards?

 

Because this rulebook graphic is significantly wrong if the blast focus is a mathematical point:
http://infinitythewiki.com/en/images/f/fa/Itw1.jpg

 

How is that wrong? and why you chose this picture instead of this one?

Also

Now the problem is smoke says Infinite height and not extending both ways, I cannot remember if the assumption is smoke and other targetless things are supposed to land on the top flat surface they aimed from so they will extend upwards only and not multi-directional.

 

If the smoke is only intended to extend upwards then it solves this thread's question. Ty for the answer.
But an extra follow up one. Does this works the same with other targetless or speculative? Could you throw it in the border of a rooftop to hit a model in the base of the building (and inside the AoE of course)?

 

With LoF being drawn from the centre of it. If it were being drawn from the whole circle the lines would be further apart.

That's wrong, period.

 

Agreed.

@Arkhos94 , can we get this added to the unanswered question thread?

@ijw , do you have the ability to get this question added to the upcoming July FAQ? If so, would you please add it? If not, who does have 'voting rights' for what questions get added to the FAQ?

What, are you saying it is now impossible to place a BSG template such that it can hit a model on the same level as the shooting trooper AND such that it catches a trooper standing on a level above the shooting trooper?

 

The template mechanics are ok, he is talking about the blast focus. In that image is represented by a huge black point (I guess to make it easy to see), also in other pictures the center of that dot doesn't coincide with the blast focus (the center of the big black point would need to coincide with the narrow end of the teardrop template).

This would be great. We have an answer but it needs a further confirmation:

The smoke for the "infinite heigh" part is intended to go only upwards.
The part to confirm is if any other circular template that may be placed in borders thanks to targetless or speculative fire (basically other grenades/GL) also works like that. If this is not confirmed in the next few days then i'm in for adding it to the unanswered thread.

 

The template is placed with the narrow end touching the leading edge of the Silhouette, not placed slightly in front of it like the diagram.

 

Let me propose some changes as the blast focus is being confirmed as a volumeness point and some questions are quite nested:

What does infinite height means regarding to smoke :
1) infinite height in both direction (upward and downward)
2) infinite height, but upward only

What is the nature of the blast focus of a circular impact template:
1) A point at the center of the template with no dimension (including no height)
2) A point in the targeted surface, which correspond with the center of the template placed; the blast focus have no dimension (including no height)
3) A point in a point infinitesimally above of the targeted surface, which correspond with the center of the template; the blast focus have no dimension (including no height)

Are the played allowed to select the target 3x3mm zone just right next to a border?
1)No, the targeted point must be the center of that 3x3mm zone, if you choose a point too close to the border that attack would be illegal and cancelled. Hence, there is no way to place the 3x3mm zone perfectly just in next to a border without allowing perfect intent (Perfect intent is not supported by the rules confirmed by ijw in this same thread)
2) Yes, you can place the 3x3mm zone around the targeted point as you wish. Hence, you are allowed to place that 3x3mm zone just in the border.

The blast focus is a point, can it be placed at the border of a roof/wall?
1) No, because you cannot place the 3x3mm zone just in the border (see question above).
2) No, you need to see at least a 3mm square of roof. Blast focus will be in the middle of this square.
3) Yes, nothing forbids you to place your blast focus on the border of a wall/roof.
4) Yes, you can place it on the border of a wall/roof but you will need to use speculative fire to being allowed place the blast focus off-centered.

If the blast focus can be placed just in the border of a roof/wall (see question above), can LoF be traced downwards from that point?
1) No, you can't place the blast focus in a border, see above.
2) No, even when placed in the border the LoF is only supossed to be unpwards, never downwards.
3) No, even when placed in a border you cannot trace LoF downwards for other reasons (in this case is true, please add reasons).
4) Yes, a point just in a corner would allow you to trace LoF downwards.

 

That seems settled to me, but it's fair. Let's wait a bit to see if there is still dobuts about this point. In that case we can add that one and modify the other to include that possibility.

 

The Blast Focus for a teardrop and a circular template are NOT the same.

The Blast Focus of the teardrop template is the narrow end.

"Place the narrow end of the Teardrop Template (Blast Focus) contacting the edge of the main target's base, following the Line of Fire (see diagram).

As the diagram shows, the narrow end of the Template (Blast Focus) must be in contact with the edge that is closest to the attacker, so that the main target is unequivocally affected by the Template."

There's absofuckinglutely no point trying to draw comparisons or conclusions from one to the other.

We KNOW from discussion on the previous forum that for DTWs you can place the template like such:


The narrow end (Blast Focus) of the template is contacting the edge of the attacker's base.

 

I talked about the blast focus of the circular templates in the questions, no need to add more variables than necessary

However the rules about the Blast Focus in the DTW seems to be applied quite generously, if we take the blast focus as a mathematical point just at the narrow end of the DT. Then the correct placement would be one that when a line is traced from the center of the attacking model to the blast focus, that line would divide the teardrop template exactly in the middle (in your image and the graphic 2 of the rulebook would be bad placed)

However that would make impossible to aim in some scenarios like the graphic 4 and 5 of the rulebook. So taking these as part of the rules, in the DTW the blast focus is applied to not only that point but also to all the semicircle at the narrow end.

So yes, in the teardrop templates the blast focus seem to be quite different to the circular template ones.