Psss...Hsien with madtrap haris+smoke(dirty trick) and take them one by one in active turn, and hide in reactive. Wu Wing good option but only in active turn. Vs tanko+domaru pain train i use zhanying haris under nimbus grenades and it was pretty good in active turn.
Boarding shotgun. Either via the Wu Ming, a Crane Rank Agent or the Heavy shotgun from the Su Jian. Honestly the best succes I've had against them. I suppose there's an option with a Wu Ming link + Zhanying Missile Launcher but I haven't tried that as of yet.
Hsien HMG firing from smoke or the lower budget Rui Shi (with marksmanship buff) if you need something cheaper. They are the best solution to almost every problem you'll face. Shotgun Su Jian is BS20 B2 which matches any ARO from the Hospitalers in their favoured rangeband. 50/50 attempts on your active turn are bad. Crane or Wu Wing with shotguns in a link are BS22 B3 which is better but if you've taken a shotgun on the Crane you're missing out on its best loadouts. Still, both are at 49% success, 15% fail. 3 to 1 odds are ok but not great and you've had to move right up to shotgun range to get that. Wu Ming HMG in the same link is 68%/8% for an almost 9-1 success rate. Hsien HMG from smoke is also in the 67%/8% range. Rui Shi is a touch below on 65%/8%. So, in summary, use high burst weapons from full link or smoke.
@BenMoss looks like you're forgetting that Hospitaller in a 4+ link has Sixth Sense and ignores the Smoke's to-hit malus
I strongly recommend a dakini HMG with supportware in this situation as it is only slightly worse than a Wu-ming HMG in a 5-man team against any fireteam without MSV, all while being less expensive and much more manoeuvrable. As for defense, i usually run 2 panzerfaust in my Wu-ming fireteam. They're cheap and good enough to make your opponent lose 1 or 2 orders to remove them, even against such powerful opponents, and once in a blue moon you'll get lucky and actually kill something with them. On a side note, if you fear Defersen, then consider a ninja or kanren KHD. Safest way to get rid of him!
Sun Tze, Wu Míng Core + Cat-Robot? You could also go for a Crane link + Hsien Haris. Last time I faced them, they came for Sun Tze and ended up blind, then he disposed of them with the shotgun lol. Throwing a ninja in there could be nice since you could fry De Fersens brain.
Thank you guys, I followed @Zewrath advice and I put a shit ton boarding shotguns on the list. Luckily I could avoid DeFersen and a Garuda did the job
The recent change to Marksmanship LX is a nice buff to Major Lunah, who I've tried hard to like. Not sure if it's going to make me consider a Pheasant Sniper though!
I only just worked this out after using an EVO for the first time for the Daedalus Fall campaign and actually reading their rules! Super keen to try this against Ariadnan scummers. Operation Kill Gopniks──────────────────────────────────────────────────GROUP 1 9 PANGGULING Hacker (EVO Hacking Device) Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 25) KǍNRÈN Minelayer Boarding Shotgun, Chain-colt, Sniffer / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Knife. (0 | 27) SUN TZE Lieutenant (Advanced Command) Boarding Shotgun, 2 Nanopulsers, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 60) RUI SHI Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 20) LWÈIBĪNG Yaókòng Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16) SOPHOTECT Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 31) HÙSÒNG Yaókòng Bitch HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 25) YUDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) YUDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) NINJA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Tactical Bow / Pistol, DA CCW, Knife. (0 | 29) CHAĪYÌ Yaókòng Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)GROUP 2 6 4 SON-BAE Yaókòng Smart Missile Launcher / Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 18) CELESTIAL GUARD (Kuang Shi Control Device) Combi Rifle + Light Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 13) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) 4.5 SWC | 298 PointsOpen in Infinity Army
I've recently been playing around with unusual fireteam options in ISS, and the MMLX Pheasant has the unique distinction of getting up to a whopping BS 24 within a Bao Core. In a faction with access to Nimbus, you're fully capable of engaging even the deadliest ARO pieces while completely minimizing your risks, and MSV1 helps offset the mimetism from Kamau or Dakini MSRs. Whether that's worth bringing a Bao Core is entirely up to you, but almost completely negating your opponent's link team bonuses while still maintaining BS21 is a powerful active turn punch.
If Bao troopers were worth taking, I'd say you're on to something. Unfortunately, they're really bad and really expensive (also, their models are pretty ugly and badly in need of an update), so it becomes extremely difficult to justify that value. Seriously though, Bao troops and Pheasant agents are units that feel like they'd be so cool if they just got the right optimization and utility changes. I want to love them, to give them a chance, but where they fall short, they do so glaringly.
I partially agree. I think Bao stats are perfectly fine for what they are -- BTS 6 is weird, but it's not the worst thing -- at most it adds two extra points on profiles that are already reasonably slimmed down. BS12 is standard on linkable troops, and WIP14 makes sense if they're generally meant to be ISS's camo hunters. They're mostly held back by their unusual weapon loadouts and total lack of specialist profiles. If they got the Shock MMR from Yuan Duan I could see them suddenly looking a lot more viable, potentially along with a hacking device of some kind. When ISS eventually gets looked at, I'd like to see Bao actually get Core, with Pheasants and possibly Zhanying counting as Bao. I personally think the MSV2/BMV2 BSG profile makes a pretty good DZ defender, but whether that's worth taking for you over is very meta dependent.
Bao wildcard would do the job. Don't really need to take a full core of them but one embedded in a team would work well
Very interesting subsector (and stylish minis). A force to consider as my possible second army (if not ISS heavy Vanilla army)
Has someone tried ISS in N4? I'm really curious about what's been working out there. I think the Su Jian HSG, crane Wildcard and Hsien MULTI Marksman seem good enough to try them out.
It's a bit troubled at the moment. The new fireteam options and load outs are cool, but we've lost a lot of value on our gutted smoke options, the 15 man cap shafts ISS extremely hard, and in general it feels like ISS got left behind in the N4 Arms race. List building feels a lot messier and more restrictive and frustrating than it should. ISS is definitely the weakest Yu Jing incarnation at the moment, and could use some serious refinement. They're not awful, but it's hard to justify jumping through their hoops now. ISS' current state would be incredible as an N3 army. In N4 though? It is frustrating.
Had only one game so far with ISS in N4, against a Spiral Corps skirmisher/impersonator spam on quadrant control. I played the following list: Spoiler: VS Spiral Corps ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 10 4 HSIEN (Lieutenant) Heavy Machine Gun, Nanopulser / Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (1.5 | 55) WÚ MÍNG Heavy Machine Gun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 37) WÚ MÍNG Boarding Shotgun ( | TinBot: Firewall [-6]) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 31) CRANE AGENT (Hacker, Hacking Device, Hacking Device) MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser(+1B) ( ) / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0.5 | 46) CELESTIAL GUARD Monitor Combi Rifle, Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 13) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 5) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 5) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 5) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 5) NINJA (Hacker, Killer Hacking Device) Tactical Bow ( ) / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 29) GROUP 2 2 1 SOPHOTECT Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 31) YUDBOT PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3) YUDBOT PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3) MAJOR LUNAH VIRAL Sniper Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 29) WARCOR (360º Visor) Flash Pulse ( ) / Stun Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3) 5.5 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army In short, I spent the whole game fighting in bad rangebands with my HMGs, getting slowly but surely overwhelmed by the skirmishers. Some map control in the form of madtraps would have really helped, the reworked igaos with their mirrorball pheroware tactic are a real pain in the ass. Now I'm trying to build guided missile lists to see if it can be done in ISS. That's what I have so far: Spoiler: Guided Missile List ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 10 4 HSIEN (Lieutenant) Heavy Machine Gun, Nanopulser / Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (1.5 | 55) XI ZHUANG Combi Rifle, Light Flamethrower(+1B), Flash Pulse, Madtraps / Pistol, CC Weapon, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 21) ZHÀNYING (Hacker, Hacking Device) Breaker Combi Rifle, Chain-colt, D-Charges ( ) / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0.5 | 25) CELESTIAL GUARD Monitor Combi Rifle, Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 13) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 5) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 5) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 5) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 5) NINJA (Hacker, Hacking Device) Submachine Gun ( ) / Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (0.5 | 35) LÙ DUĀN Mk12, Heavy Flamethrower(+1B) ( | Deployable Repeater) / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 24) GROUP 2 4 1 MAJOR LUNAH VIRAL Sniper Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 29) SON-BAE Yaókòng Missile Launcher / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (1.5 | 16) SOPHOTECT Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 31) YUDBOT PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3) KǍNRÈN (Minelayer) Combi Rifle, Chain-colt, Madtraps / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon. (0 | 25) WARCOR (360º Visor) Flash Pulse ( ) / Stun Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3) 6 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army I'm not sure if it's a good way to go with ISS, but I think the ninja can be fairly capable at sneaking around to spotlight stuff and unlock situations through orbital bombardment.
Do you happen to have the Spiral Corps list? As someone who currently plays Spiral and might be expanding into ISS I'd be interested to see the opponent's list.
