Total Immunity - ARM/BTS roll choice

see, I disagree here, I feel as though there is a difference between a clause relying on the understanding of the core rules versus another clause within the same set of exceptions

 

I...I think I love you!

 

We answered calmy the first page, citing literal rules with zero hostility. You then proceeded to go 'duuurh wrong!', to the person who literally wrote the wiki and English translation, who's explaining to you how the trigger works, which is consistent in the entire ruleset.

You have nothing, my dude. Cut your loses and hope people will forget this embarrassment of a thread as soon as possible. Anyways, I'm out.

 

So my interpretation is
EFFECTS

• When suffering a successful Attack—or being affected by any weapon or rule—that forces any ARM or BTS Rolls, the owner is immune to the special effects of the Special Ammunitions, treating them as Normal Ammunition.
• In addition, players can choose between making an ARM Roll or BTS Roll, choosing the most advantageous for them.
• If affected by a weapon or Ammunition with the Non-Lethal Trait (see Infinity N3) that forces an ARM or BTS Roll, owners of Total Immunity won't suffer its effects, so they won't make the ARM or BTS Roll, nor any corresponding Guts Roll.
• This Special Skill is not applied if the owner suffers a Hacking or Comms Attack.

In addition for means that something gets added to the point before. It adds to something already existing so in this case it adds to the first point.
The condition I read is: When suffering a succesful Attack -or being affected by any weapon or rule- that foreces any ARM or BTS Rolls.
The result is: the owner is immune to the special effects of the Special Ammunitions, treating them as Normal Ammunition.
Now comes an addition with: In ADDITION players can choose between making an ARM Roll or BTS Roll, choosing the most advantageous for them.

The only way it makes sense for me if the addition uses the same condition as the first result. I can't find any way that it makes sense that the result of the first point is suddenly a condition for the second.

To write it in programming language it would look like that:
If(When suffering a succesful Attack -or being affected by any weapon or rule- that foreces any ARM or BTS Rolls)
{
the owner is immune to the special effects of the Special Ammunitions, treating them as Normal Ammunition.;
In ADDITION players can choose between making an ARM Roll or BTS Roll, choosing the most advantageous for them.;
}

so yes I would totally interpret it that you can choose between BTS or ARM if you get hit by a normal attack.

 

:D <3

I'm sorry, mate, but it really doesn't work this way in polite society. You can't barge in with your rudeness, arrogance, dismissiveness and demand respect and not offer any at all yourself "until you're treated seriously". People have been really polite and tried to engage you nonetheless, yet you persist in your poor attitude, the only reason for which seems to be the slight of not agreeing with your viewpoint. Persist further and you will get laughed outta town (that is, put on ignore lists by people and not engaged with anymore).

I'd hate to see that because you're smart and your obvious analytic skills could see good use here. You seem to be so much alike my younger self it's actually painful.

Eh, I attempted to empathize with you and show you how your behaviour here degrades your chances to get your point across to those people who irk you by "not understanding what you're saying".

You're invalid on the design premise because one of the co-designers has just explicitly told you that your reading of the rule is neither RAI (not intended) nor it is RAW (not what's written). Yes, you can bend the syntax and semantics to get your reading, but that's how language is, it requires good faith in both the sender and receiver. Once the receiver (you) has "bad faith" (that is, either actually or is engaged in "destructive linguistic testing" of the ruleset), it all goes out of the window. There are precious few, if any, rulesets that are bad-faith-proof.

Well, that's the end of the road for me with you mate, I said my peace. I hope something of this gets through, if not now, then later on.

Cheers :)

 

The first bullet point uses em dashes. They are basically parentheses, so while calling out some specifics, there’s no full stop in there so your interpretation disregards it being just one sentence inside the first bullet point. You are trying to apply something to part of a sentence and not the whole.

Bullet points are used to list information in no particular order. That’s not a paragraph of information with an ‘in addition’ calling back to the previous sentence. There is nothing to apply to the first bullet because ‘In addition’ doesn’t mean added to, it means something extra. CB have chosen bullet points over a paragraph, presumably to make it easier to break down that information. They could quite happily have given you that something extra as the first bullet.

Pre order:

• In addition, a free Saito Togan
• Artichokes

We aren’t baking a cake in a numbered list in a specific order, we are just getting the ingredients for the cake. If we are taking one of those ingredients out of the context of the list then, yeah, it’s not going to make sense. All of the ingredients are in the context of the cake.


If your argument was that you would like a recipe, I can get behind that.

 

This is the most autistic thing I have read in a long time. How is this still a debate. You are wrong. I hope you are just a master troll with a lot of free time.

 

Why the slur towards individuals with autism? That type of stereotyping is shitty. If you thought it would be funny or make you sound cool, you were wrong.

 

Are you Triumph's sock puppet? We JUST had a thread where this bullshit came up.

Stop demeaning me and people like me. Just don't, please.

@Postmortem
Thank you for that.

 

So my thoughts to your interpretation.

You say that the second bullet point doesn't stand on it own. Now we got two options, it could refer to the bullet point it came before, if you check my interpretation a few posts up thats how I understood it. In this case the most logical understandting for me is that it uses the condition of the first bullet point. The condition of the first bullet point is "When suffering a successful Attack—or being affected by any weapon or rule—that forces any ARM or BTS Rolls". We come to the result everyone agrees on here in the thread you can use it against normal ammo.
Second option its an addition to all other bullet points and I come to the same conclusion as the first option

I can't see how "In addition" would turn the whole first bullet point into an condition. The part about special Ammo is something the owner gets through the skill, the ability to treat it as normal ammo and ignore its effect, its not a condition in any way in my eyes.

I agree it would be helpful if there is an game example with normal ammo but there isn't so the game example are not really helpful either way.

 

So you want to simply treat the second bullet point on its own. That just means you can always choose between armor or bts if you need to make a roll as long as not another bullet point doesn't specifically exclude some rolls?
Still works fine in my eyes, its a complete sentence.

My point was that if you absolutly want to connect the second bullet point to the first it would make sense to use the condition that is set in the first bullet point and not with the result of the bullet point because you are looking for a condition, everything thats not a condition is not relevant.
The only condition that exist in the first bullet point is this: "When suffering a successful Attack—or being affected by any weapon or rule—that forces any ARM or BTS Rolls"
This is the only trigger condition we get.

 

Hi. Wanted to bring my point here:
The "in adition" could refeer both tho the previous point (an extra point to the rule and independent from the first one) or to the previous resolution (dependent from the first one).
If we think it works as an standalone point, it works for all ARM or BTS rols, all of them including normal ammunition shots.
If we think it depends of the resolution of the first one, that would mean is an extra effect, and then we look at the condition, which is never to have non-basic ammunition or so.
Trying to force it to only the special ammunition is creating a new condition thar was never there.
Yes. Maybe is a wrong rule dessign, but that is another topic. As it is written, you can chose with special ammunition, and also with normal one.