Because I'm very slow managing two combat groups! I'm sure playing more would help, but still. I've been playing since N1, and I've always aimed at single combat group lists. Starter box (less a model or two), TAG, pair of REMs, doc and engineer. That was a game for a very long time!
I picked up Druze and am trying to get comfortable playing multi-group lists but I find it difficult and am struggling.
One thing I've found with LI lists is that they force you to play better otherwise you will just get rolled. What I mean by this is that you need to extremely cognizant of your positioning and planned attack vectors, you tend to take less risky firefights and other f2f rolls and generally end up finding more creative ways to circumvent a problem. While being aware of the above is also true in MCGs you often have the bodies and orders to just not really care so you play a looser and make some mistakes these mistakes become magnified to the point of potentially crippling which will enforce lessons learned. Also LI provides a more interesting and enjoyable tactical puzzle to solve on the table.
I try from time to time single-group lists when playing with JSA, in heavy HI lists. They usually don't work, because as soon as you start loosing models it's difficult to accomplish things with few Orders, but I have fun. Usually I prefer 13-15 Order lists.
CA and morats I tend to end up with a single group Onyx I'm usually two groups Nomads (inc bakunin) I'm usually two groups. Ariadna is usually multiple groups (the exception being TAK) Yu-jing Two groups but I can do well with a single group (the exception being IA) Pano single group JSA multi group Certain factions just do LI or MCG better than others, LI makes you feel losses more and makes quality units who get the job done in less orders far more important, MCG increases resiliance, board control and often command structure but can struggle dislodging actual quality units which are in the right place at the right time. Vanilla CA as an example do well at LI as they mitigate risk via the memonica LT or morat rule and have a lot of high quality troops so if your heavy hitter goes down you can move onto another almost equally dangerous option, units like the shrouded, malignos, maakrep and sogarat pack auto meds which can make them more reliable and self sufficient, boobworm's speed and board coverage cost but increase his reliability etc. Multiple groups can be a detraction from spending command tokens on combined orders or can bleed your heavy hitter of resources in turn 1 JSA by comparison to me lean towards multi group*, they need orders to get forward into JSA range, they lack AD and they're not generally winning firefights on their overall superior troop quality or firepower which is either BS13 or BS 12 with a mod ignored by MSV tending to rely on extra bodies or extra wounds to roll again, including on the specialists who can't turn on the console when they eventually get there. *I could have used Ariadna as the MCG example but it removes all challenge.
Fair, though I don't see why they couldn't just make him g-sync with the doggo and have a non-sync version for linking Either way, the dumb base size does allow some shenanigans, like making him able to cover both sides of a wall with his new nifty T2 shotty My time with StarCo showed me how to use them effectively, they are pretty much the only kind of link I run other than the occasional defensive Haris
Inspired by Aspect's post above, I made a newbie attempt at making a 10-Order list for TAK. The idea is for the Scouts to infiltrate as Camouflages, probably just up to my half of the table. FOs do their Specialist mission-related thing, BS Scout is there to harass the enemies on their half. Vassily hangs back as two Camos and snipes if need be, providing CoC in case of the Tankhunter LT going down. Tankhunters hang back with him, watching out for things to treat with glue and MLs. K-9 Strelok forward deploys as two Camos and Camo-Doge, 8" up the field, to sniff out (Sensor) any enemy camouflages, mines, etc.; Marksman Strelok provides overwatch for him. HMG Spetz plays aggressive flank as two camos and attempts to pick enemies out of cover and / or get in CC with them. If need be, this suicide push will be fueled by most or all of the turn's orders. I wonder what are the potential issues I'll run into with this list, please comment, as I have little to no context yet :) My main intention was making opposing this list as order-intensive and confusing for the enemy as possible, despite there being just 11 actual models (but 14 regular camos and a big doge one). All Russian, all Camo ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 10 SCOUT (Forward Observer) Ojotnik, D-Charges, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 30) SCOUT (Forward Observer) Ojotnik, D-Charges, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 30) SCOUT (Forward Observer) Ojotnik, D-Charges, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 30) SCOUT Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25) VASSILY (Chain of Command) T2 Sniper, D-Charges / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (1 | 39) STRELOK K-9 Submachine Gun, Chain-colt, Antipersonnel Mines + 1 K-9 Antipode / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24) K-9 ANTIPODE Trench-hammer, AP CC Weapon. (8) STRELOK Marksman Rifle T2, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 29) TANKHUNTER Lieutenant AP Rifle, Adhesive Launcher, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 25) TANKHUNTER Missile Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 29) SPETSNAZ (CH: Ambush Camouflage) HMG / Pistol, CCW, Knife. (1.5 | 38) 5 SWC | 299 Points Open in Infinity Army
I never seem to get the idea of how to even make a SCG JSA list honestly. Everything is so cheap it's genuinely hard spending enough points for me. One of the reasons I prefer SCGs. Order loss is rather painful... but you don't feel as much loss whenever a quality piece dies, unlike in an MCG list. And yeah, certain factions do indeed to LI a lot better than others. JSA and most Ariadna related lists tend to be examples of it being difficult to do single-group lists, at least that's how they come across to me.
Thinking about Starco and LI, I almost forgot about this beauty: Starco. Free Company of the Star──────────────────────────────────────────────────9 1 1 AVICENNA Combi Rifle, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27) RIOT GRRL Spitfire / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 34) RIOT GRRL (Fireteam: Haris) Combi Rifle, Blitzen, Stun Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 30) MOBILE BRIGADA HMG / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 42) MOBILE BRIGADA Lieutenant MULTI Rifle + Light Flamethrower / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 39) MOBILE BRIGADA Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 43) SEÑOR MASSACRE Breaker Combi Rifle, E/M Grenades, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW, E/M CCW. (0 | 29) DAKTARI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14) TSYKLON Spitfire, Pitcher / Electric Pulse. (1 | 31) IRMANDINHO Chain Rifle, D-Charges, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 8) ZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) 6 SWC | 300 PointsOpen in Infinity Army I only ran it once and lost horribly due to stupid deployment. Might be time for another try.
It's a fair list but as a quick critique of potential problems, Imperial service: linked models that can take multiple wounds, sensors, a paranoid obsession with 6thSL2 and kuang shi. Singular attack direction, Your opponent doesn't have to guard his flanks or backline. There is nothing there I'd want to piece change for a kuang shi or to reveal to shoot a kuang shi in reaction to stop it getting to my arm 1 1W mid-field.
Oh, don't worry. Dotanko core + Karakuri haris will get you there in no time. Or "Seven Samurai" list, favourite of @Section9 (IIRC).
Huh... I actually never thought about going full Karakuri Haris, come to think of it. Still leaves the slight issue of picking a Lieutenant
For the record, I have no idea if those lists are any solid, I'm just saying that between number of HI options and TO camo infiltrators there are options to spend quite some points.
I will use this opportunity to increase my theory crafting because it perfectly as what I so far understand as a void. Everything here is aggressive. The Riot Haris, will move up the board, kill and push buttons like a good haris. The core won't excel in ARO (swap HMG for ML ?) and the Tsyklon is as well an aggressive piece that will do stuff only on the active. How do you play this? Everything is hidden at the end of turn? How do you prevent button pushing? The zondbot does not link with anything btw I am a new player (2months) so thanks in advance for demolishing my reasoning ;)
Actually... all Irmandinhos are Engineers. So the Zondbot in fact links with the Irmandinho here. Which is odd, yes, since that inadvertantly creates an impetous Zondbot.
Always happy to talk theory. Yup, this is an extremely in your face list. I don't remember the mission I built it for but I suspect it was frontline or quadrant control. There's definitely little to no ARO game in this list. I find that any ARO piece will die sooner or later, so with only 10 orders to work with I chose to press in with multiwound models. Tsyklon was chosen more for area denial. It has a 360 visor and an X visor, so if you stick it on a wall somewhere and put it in suppressive fire it can lock down a good portion of the board. Plus it has a repeater my MB hacker can use. If an opportunity arises then I can use supportware to pump it up and send it hunting on the active turn. First question: entirely based on the board layout and what my opponent has on the field. Second question: By murdering your opponents button pushers or by defending the buttons to deny access. This list was probably built for an area control mission, but it does pack 4 specialists, two of which are in a link with eclipse grenades so it might do okay. Irmandinho is an Engineer oddly enough. He's there to help my HI or fix the REM, deliver smoke, and also to be the warband he is. The helper bot either does the engineer work for him or if they both get into base to base contact with an enemy then Irmandinho gets B2 during close combat. Where I see problems in the list: moderately weak to hacking, very weak to E/M and other isolating efffects. Daktari is easy to kill which is a weak link in that team. It's hard to keep Irmandinho alive long enough to actually fix things. Low order count (suck it Maks). Edit: Found the Batrep for this list, half way down the page here. I go further into what the plan was and how awful deployment (and apparently cockiness) were my downfall. https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/starco-thoughts-after-first-battles.7306/
I feel oddly targeted here, as if an SML is heading my way... Tsyklons are marvelously versatile though, are they not? It's always a nice passtime.
Links are always order efficient, so a resilient core + haris is good, and bikes are impetuous and fast, so order efficient as well. Spoiler The Bikes start by tossing smoke, placing some koalas midfield and grab an objective, Karakuris move up under that smoke to block the mid, DoTanko cover the range and secure the DZ... (If the Core breaks - Tankos are impetuous and Domaru have frenzy, so still lots of orders...) Just an LI example ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 9 1 5 KARAKURI Mk12, Chain Rifle, D.E.P. / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 40) KARAKURI Heavy Shotgun, Chain Rifle, D.E.P. / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 35) DOMARU (Fireteam: Haris) Chain Rifle, E/M Grenades / Pistol, E/M CCW, Shock CC Weapon. (0.5 | 27) TANKŌ Missile Launcher / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 32) TANKŌ Flammenspeer, Contender / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 23) TANKŌ Blitzen, Submachine Gun / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 23) DOMARU Spitfire / Pistol, E/M CCW, Shock CC Weapon. (2 | 39) DOMARU Lieutenant Chain Rifle, E/M Grenades / Pistol, E/M CCW, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 26) YOJIMBO Contender, Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades, CrazyKoalas (2) / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 21) KUROSHI RIDER Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower / Breaker Pistol, AP + Shock CCW. (0 | 33) 4 SWC | 299 Points Open in Infinity Army
