Say Bran do Castro with a boarding shotgun is coming round a corner of a building at a 5 man fireteam of fusileers who have sixth sense, as in the attached drawing. The fusileers can't see Bran because they're being blocked by the other fusileers. If Bran then shoots a boarding shotgun template so that it covers all of them can they shoot back at him? Sixth sense says LoF isn't required but surely any shots would be blocked by the other fusileers, otherwise going by the same logic you could shoot back as a reaction to speculative fire shots which doesn't make much sense.
Bran is in Total Cover for all Fusilier except the first because the LoF is obstructed by a friendly figure (that's why they should all be prone). Only the first can ARO with BS attack. PS : your template is slightly misplaced, to hit the first fusilier here, your LoF is a diagonal line (not an horizontal one) so the template cannot be placed like this
They can't shoot back. But if they dodge, they ignore the -3 penalty. You can shoot back regardless of LoF only for the "LoF is always in the front arc" part of LoF, not the "LoF is blocked by total cover and figures in the way" part of LoF. And the template is not correctly placed, but still possible to hit every one if yo place it correctly.
@Arkhos94 pretty much nailed it. Just to elaborate on it for a bit - Sixth Sense allows you to ignore LOF restrictions as for example Facing and Zero Visibility Zones. Total Cover on the other hand prohibits the declaration of BS Attacks altogether and overrules Sixth Sense. That is extremely bad deployment and the player controlling the Fusiliers had it coming. It's a lesson each of us had to learn the hard way once
Nope you're wrong. Scenery completely obstructing vision or plain and simple not having LOF for any reason whatsoever grants Total Cover. The second condition is universal and does not reqire scenery. Sixth Sense only lets you ignore obstructed LOF for Zero Vis and Facing reasons under specific conditions. But i.e. Troopers blocking LOF are not covered by Sixth Sense and provide Total Cover. Not having LOF granting Total Cover is also why you can fail Guts to fall back into a smoke cloud - it's not Scenery, but Total Cover (against anything without a MSV2/3). Scenery is specifically mentioned in the first condition but not in the second one. If the second condition was refering to Scenery the first condition doesn't make sense on multiple levels. Total Cover Total Cover completely blocks the attacker's vision of his target, obstructing any LoF. Requirements For a trooper to be in Total Cover, one of these two must be true: The pieces of scenery completely obstructs the attacking enemy's LoF. The attacking enemy does not have LoF to the trooper. Effects Troopers cannot declare BS Attacks with weapons, Special Skills or pieces of Equipment that require LoF against a target in Total Cover.
@Teslarod if that were true smoke grenades would provide total cover, and you wouldn't be able to intuitive attack through them.
Intuitive Attack doesn't actually rely on Total Cover to lay out its rules, but instead says you can attack through Zero Visibilitt Zones. Templates also don't rely on Total Cover, but instead separately specify scenery as a limiting factor for blast focus. So as far as I've been able to check out Teslarod's claim holds fairly well to scrutiny.
@Mahtamori nah. The template rules are written with the assumption that you need LoF from the blast focus to be affected. Also @Teslarod left out the fact that the beginning of the cover rules only says that sceneru can grant cover, it says nothing about troopers.
While the description for Total Cover talks a lot about scenery, the relevant rule does not. That's what we usually call RAW. As already mentioned. In detail. Funny how you'd miss that. Again. Quite hillarious really. I'm in stitches. As also already pointed out the first Requirement specifically mentions scenery and the second one does not. If the second one was refering to scenery the first one would be quite obsolete to begin with. While admittedly non scenery providing Total Cover is a bit of bad taste as far as descriptive naming patterns go, but these are the Infinity rules and CB sometimes forgets about such minor details as "not confusing the players".
@Teslarod From the wiki: The term Cover refers to all pieces of scenery that partially or completely obstruct LoF, thus preventing the attacker from making a clean BS Attack. Doesn't say anything about Troopers. It's more that CB forgot troopers... so we have no idea how to treat them. From the template rules: Each Template has a Blast Focus to determine if nearby scenery protects a trooper from the Template's effects. If LoF can be drawn from the Blast Focus to the trooper, then that trooper is affected by the Template. However, if the LoF cannot be drawn due to the presence of a piece of scenery, then the trooper is considered to be in Total Cover and is not affected by the Template. So even taking the most literal reading possible, you try to affect a trooper shielded by other troopers or a smoke grenade, and you can't satisfy the first sentence's requirements to affect the trooper. But then LoF isn't being stopped by scenery... so... what do you do exactly? It's not made clear. In the examples, however, templates propagate through troopers, which implies that they aren't total cover, because otherwise they'd be stopped by the second sentence I quoted above. Arguing that you're presenting RAW is pointless because RAW in this case is unclear and self-contradictory. AFAIK you're reading the rules in English and that isn't your first language, but trust me, it's not clear in the English text (and barely any better in the Spanish).
Your point being? That's the definition for the game term Cover, which applies when the game term is used. Which for the second Requirement for Total Cover is not the case as there is no mention of it. Blast templates specifically mention an obstruction of LOF through Scenery and no one was arguing that troops prevent other troops to get hit by templates. Because, again, it's specifically pointed out that blast templates require Scenery, not lack of LOF to block their effects. This has no effect on the second Requirement for Total Cover as these aren't reliant on each other to begin with. You need one or the other, not both. Taking a look at the Effects of Total Cover we actually notice that it's not very descriptive of what it actually does. It doesn't prevent damage in general, it is circumvented by templates hitting troops around corners or walls indirectly or by Spec Fire Shots. It merely prevents BS Attack declarations that require LOF. Effects Troopers cannot declare BS Attacks with weapons, Special Skills or pieces of Equipment that require LoF against a target in Total Cover. Has nothing to do with the language either, the Spanish version lacks any reference to scenery in the second Requirement.
Total Cover (and Partial Cover) are both subsets of Cover. They also need LoF to actually affect things, which puts someone obscured from a blast focus by troopers in a weird limbo state where they're neither affected nor unaffected by the template. The wording also implies that scenery, and only scenery, creates Total Cover. It's all predicated by the statement at the top of the page that Cover is created by scenery. Nowhere does it say Total Cover can be created by Troopers (or smoke grenades). Ok, so sixth sense lets you shoot back through walls vs. guided ammo or spec fire?
Yes of Cover as in the name of a rule. Not of the definition of the game term cover. Which you seem to be confusing. The template rules do a quite decent job at making that part of the interaction clear. Not sure what your problem is? Scenery (and nothing else) prevents secondary targets to get hit by impact templates, it's that easy. Nah that seems to be a problem with your reading comprehension. Total Cover can be created by lack of LOF, scenery just happens to meet both requirements. But one is enough so it doesn't. Why would it? Against a Spec Fire shot from Total Cover provided by a Zero Vis Zone, Zero Vis has a specific exception that allows you to retaliate with BS Attack AROs. Against a Spec Fire shot from Total Cover provided by anything else (troops, scenery,...) you are in Total Cover which prevents BS Attack declaration as ARO.
The name of the rule is the same thing as the game term. You're just conveniently ignoring parts of the written rules to make your point. No, you're not understanding the text I quoted above. The rules say that you need LoF to the blast focus to be affected. The rules also say that you're not affected if scenery blocks LoF. What about when LoF to the blast focus is blocked by anything other than scenery? Nope. You're having trouble with English, that makes sense, it isn't your first language, so just go with me on this one. Does a model have Total Cover if it is behind another one and outside of its front arc? The sentence at the start of the Cover section indicates that you should *only* consider scenery when determining what grants cover. If you ignore that sentence, like you're doing, it causes all sorts of problems. You clearly haven't read the rules for sixth sense. Go find someone fluent in English or Spanish to read the rules and explain them for you.
This is getting funny. Nope it's not. Far from that actually. There are plenty cases where things like Movement, Attacks etc are used as game term or name for a rule. Not all Moves invoke the Short Skill Move for example. Because you're missing rules as usual. That part is covered under the Area of Effect paragraph. All troops under the template get hit by the template. The out of context passage you quoted is an exception to that for troops that are under the template but can't draw LOF to the Blast Focus due to Scenery. Nah as shown right above you really have some troubles with your reading comprehension. Not quite sure which part of: Requirements For a trooper to be in Total Cover, one of these two must be true: The pieces of scenery completely obstructs the attacking enemy's LoF. The attacking enemy does not have LoF to the trooper. still gives you trouble. Oh and no - your interpretation is the one causing problems. See example below. See there are several problems with your understanding and interpretation of the rules. Lets make a specific example to elaborate on that. By your interpretation of the Sixth Sense rules, someone lobbing grenades from behind a TAG can get shot in retaliation by a Sixth Sense trooper. Since you claim the TAG doesn't grant Total Cover as it is not Scenery and with a free pass from LOF restrictions thanks to and Sixth Sense there you go - Magic curve bullet time. Now how would that play out with Total Cover through lack of LOF? (as literally written in the second condition) Sixth Sense does not grant LOF, it lets you ignore LOF. So with Total Cover in the equation you can not declare BS Attacks against troops in Total Cover. No magic curve bullets. As much as you would probably like that the problem isn't lost in translation or my terribly poor English. It's really just seems to be your reading comprehension.
No, but the short skill Move follows the rules for movement. Except that section is titled "Template Weapons, Scenery Items, and Total Cover" So if you think troopers provide Total Cover, then this section would be applicable. You're selectively calling the obstruction provided by troopers Total Cover when it suits you and not when it doesn't. That kind of grade-school twisting of the facts to try to win an argument is repulsive and immature. And you're ignoring this part: The term Cover refers to all pieces of scenery that partially or completely obstruct LoF, thus preventing the attacker from making a clean BS Attack. because it would invalidate your argument, and apparently admitting you are out of your depth on a foreign language is so shattering to your fragile ego that you can't bring yourself to do it. Sure. I don't see what the problem is. Better than shooting through walls, which makes even less sense. If you need an explanation, let's assume that the SS trooper is able to time their shots or has a preternatural ability to avoid friendly fire in such a circumstance. If it lets you ignore LoF you don't need to satisfy the LoF requirements to not be affected by Total Cover. Regardless, the rules on this topic are a bit of a clusterfuck and CB could do some good by actually rewriting them to be precise, but if you think I'm going to take your word on what ignoring LoF means, you're wrong, because you have no basis for that. See my above points and get with the program.
Well wasn't your point was that the name of the rule is the same as the game term? We arrived at the agreement that it's not - great! Not quite sure which part of "Exception" escaped your notice there. As a secondary target hit by a template you can't gain Total Cover the normal way. After all preventing a BS Attack from being declared against you will not save you from those three armour rolls from that Missile template on your head because the guy around the corner poked his head out. Hence there exists the exception "Template Weapons, Scenery Items, and Total Cover" nested in the primary rule "Area of Effect" This exception retroactively grants you this: "then the trooper is considered to be in Total Cover and is not affected by the Template" At this point of the Order Total Cover is just there. Total Cover in that situation (being a secondary target of a successfully declared Template) doesn't really do anything. However "not being affected by the Template" is nice and actually means you do not have to make those 3 ARM rolls since you are in completely obstructed from the Blast Focus around the corner. Nope. "Cover" is a clearly defined term as per definition. However "Partial Cover" and Total Cover are the names of rules. Partial Cover specifically mentions interaction with Scenery in it's rule text. And Total Cover specifically mentions interaction with Scenery in it's rule text. Further there is an alternative requirement that grants Total Cover, which doesn't mention Scenery. Since it was specifically mentioned in every other instance and the other requirement for Total Cover doesn't make sense if you start interpreting a reference to Scenery into it, it should be on you to bring some valid proof that your RAI claim should trump the RAW. Although you seem to keep repeating yourself instead and it appears you either have no interest or can't come up with something to back your claim aside from "they used the same word in the name and the definition". Aside from the magic curve bullet time or shooting through solid troops. Yeah okay buddy, good for you I guess. You don't gain LOF when you are shooting back through Zero Vis either, funny enough it uses the same wording as Sixth Sense. But if you want to invent intent everywhere, might as well include Sixth Sense to grant you LOF instead of letting you ignore it. Let's see how that would turn out with another fun example! A Squalo shoots a Spec Fire shot over a building but through a Zero Vis Zone on the roof. This triggers the Zero Vis Zone interaction for shooting back through it at -6 Effects Troopers cannot draw LoF through a Zero Visibility Zone. Inside a Zero Visibility Zone, troopers can only declare Skills that do not require LoF or that require them to be in base to base contact with their target. Any trooper who is the target of a BS Attack into or out of a Zero Visibility Zone, or whose LoF traverses a Zero Visibility Zone, may respond to the attacker even without LoF, provided the trooper is facing the attacker. However, without a clear LoF to his target, the trooper's ARO (or second Short Skill of his Order in Active Turn) options are reduced to BS Attack with a -6 MOD or Dodge without the MOD. Now if your claim was correct and Sixth Sense gets rid of the need for actual LOF, bypassing Total Cover in the process, I could shoot back at the guy slugging me with his HGL from across half the table. Magic Bullet time again. I'll stick with my version that that is prevented by the Total Cover rules requiring LOF and that ignoring LOF is not enough for that. Uhhh we're at Ad Hominem, scary.... now where's my popcorn as I wait for PS to come yell at us both.
