1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Hemos actualizado nuestra PolĂ­tica de Privacidad acorde con la nueva RGPD. +Info // We've updated our Privacy Policy to comply with the GDPR. +Info
    Dismiss Notice

[SOLVED] Jammer total cover

Discussion in 'Solved Rule Questions' started by spears, Jun 12, 2018.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. spears

    spears Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2017
    Messages:
    105
    Likes Received:
    141
    I've always played jammer that it can fire through total cover so:

    1. Jammer does not require lof, can it attack a unit through total cover?
    2. If the answer to 1 is yes, can a ssl2 trooper respond to a speculative fire attack by shooting despite intervening total cover.
    Or can a jammer just shoot through smoke etc but not cover and I have been playing it wrong.
     
  2. eciu

    eciu bloody vanilla

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    2,308
    Likes Received:
    2,553
    1. Yes.
    2. No, it ignors LoF as for orientation/smoke purposes, not when there's a wall or SS2 guy's ally in a way.
     
    Urobros, inane.imp and Xeurian like this.
  3. spears

    spears Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2017
    Messages:
    105
    Likes Received:
    141
    Other than common consensus is there a rule that differentiates the two?
    How about shooting back at a jammer?
     
  4. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2017
    Messages:
    2,556
    Likes Received:
    3,525
    We know that SS is poorly worded. the examples make clearer that it refers to facing rather than seeing through walls.

    Its not community consensus either, its IJWs RAI statement.

    Example of Sixth Sense L1 vs a TO Camouflage Marker
    A TO Camouflaged Spektr declares the first Short Skill of his Order: Moving towards a Maakrep Tracker with her back turned. The Spektr is inside the Tracker's Zone of Control, but he has not declared an Attack so she cannot use her Sixth Sense L1 to shoot back.
    The Maakrep Tracker chooses to delay her ARO declaration until after the Spektr declares his second Short Skill. The Maakrep Tracker is allowed to delay her ARO both because the active trooper is a TO Marker and because of her Sixth Sense L1. The Spektr declares a BS Attack as the second Short Skill of his Order. Now that she is the target of an Attack, the Maakrep Tracker may benefit from her Sixth Sense L1 to react as if she was facing the Spektr and ignore the handicap imposed by the Spektr's Surprise Shot L1. The Tracker chooses to declare a BS Attack so the Order is resolved with a Face to Face BS Roll between both soldiers.
     
    sarf and toadchild like this.
  5. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2018
    Messages:
    2,453
    Likes Received:
    2,506
    There's three reasons Troopers don't have LOF:
    Outside of facing (LOF) arc
    In total cover
    They're in a Zero Vis zone.

    These are understood to be different. But nothing in the rules makes that clear. Consequently nothing RAW prevents you shooting back with a BS Attack through Total Cover using Sixth Sense. This is a known issue and is just quietly ignored as per the RAI @daboarder explained.

    Speculative Fire is an Entire Order and not an ARO: so you can't Speculative Fire back ever.

    Jammers are also complex and don't behave like regular BS Attacks: can someone link the thread that comprehensively describes how they work? @Spleen
     
    daboarder and Hachiman Taro like this.
  6. spears

    spears Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2017
    Messages:
    105
    Likes Received:
    141
    Thanks, I'm fairly certain I understand how they work. Just trying to see if this was explicit beyond the forum.
     
  7. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2018
    Messages:
    2,453
    Likes Received:
    2,506
    LoL
     
    daboarder likes this.
  8. kinginyellow

    kinginyellow Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2017
    Messages:
    433
    Likes Received:
    289
    There is no raw that I can tell that applies to one and not the other. However everyone that i have played with has jammer ignores walls and SSL not.

    The easiest answer is because SSL is one of the worst worded rules in the game and one shouldn't look at SSL to hard, it breaks everything.
     
    daboarder and inane.imp like this.
  9. Andre82

    Andre82 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Messages:
    330
    Likes Received:
    409
    RAW: yes you can shoot back.
    RAI: No you can not shoot back.

    It has been We know RAI is the official correct answer per IJW but it has not been errated yet.
     
    daboarder likes this.
  10. eciu

    eciu bloody vanilla

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    2,308
    Likes Received:
    2,553
    You forgot a special case when a guy is standing behind his ally, so is a "sudo" total cover but can easily be hit by templates (and won't be able to fire back with SS2).
     
    Hecaton and inane.imp like this.
  11. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2017
    Messages:
    173
    Likes Received:
    180
    Dear god, Jammers are broken. Those, SS, and Pokemon are the only broken things in the game. One good round of FAQing could fix them all. I hope that does happen.
     
  12. kinginyellow

    kinginyellow Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2017
    Messages:
    433
    Likes Received:
    289
    See, that's the line for me where SSL does start letting you shoot back even if no lof between the two.
     
    Hecaton likes this.
  13. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    2,353
    Likes Received:
    2,303
    That's how I would play it, and how I would re-write the rules to represent. Its unfortunate that the rules as written are so ambiguous on the topic.
     
    Urobros likes this.
  14. Urobros

    Urobros Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    524
    Likes Received:
    360
    Hello,

    I don't think so. Jammer involve roll a dice and you can easily avoid the damage from this weapon with your own roll. The troops have to fail two Rolls. And no all the troups in game can be hit for a jammer, remember: veteran or morat rules. Yes, it is a powerfull weapon, but only that. "Pokemons" are other history, they don't need nothing to work.
     
    Balewolf likes this.
  15. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    2,353
    Likes Received:
    2,303
    The issue with jammers is usually the best you can do is reset. They need to at least make them comms equipment.
     
  16. spears

    spears Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2017
    Messages:
    105
    Likes Received:
    141
    I think both jammers and mates are as much a poor experience issue as a poor balance one. Proxies imo are a costined issue but dont cause such a negative experience once on the table.
     
    Mahtamori likes this.
  17. xagroth

    xagroth Posthuman

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    4,474
    Likes Received:
    3,322
    The Jammer is a Comms Attack, so you can declare Reset if you want (or shoot back, if you have LoF... and if it's your Active turn and you did a Speculative Fire declaration, you can suffer a FtF roll between the Jammer and your shot! XD).

    The problem you might be seen is that you cannot hack the Heckler nor the Muttas with a Jammer to disable that piece of gear, but a Heckler is carrying already a Comms gear piece (the koala) until it spends it at least.
     
  18. HellLois

    HellLois What the Hell...Lois?
    CB Staff

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2017
    Messages:
    377
    Likes Received:
    1,088
    correct.
     
    eciu likes this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.