JSA seems like hard mode for infinity

Dropping into SF with a -6/9 can be done by your Ryuken, except they do it better because of the X-Visor.

The point reduction is nice but you lose the ability to threaten multiple targets, with HD and Supinf the Oniwaban can really get the most from his BSG and pick a nice juicy target, additionally due to his relative fragility he's often better off re-camoing rather than going into SuppFire IMO

 

I agree. Oniwaban are one thing that does not need any adjusting.

I like the SMG Oniwaban a lot by the way, and use it frequently. I don't use Suppressive Fire a lot, especially for Oniwaban, and especially when the Ryuken-9 does it better for cheaper. But the +1 Burst over the boarding shotgun feels reliable. Statistically they're actually likely to yield similar outcomes, but I like the Burst 3 of the SMG just for the possibility of forcing 2-3 saves, rather than 1-2. The points you save are helpful too... I frequently use them to upgrade a whole pile of Keisotsu to Forward Observers, which is very nice.

Beaten to it by colbrook. Ryuken-9 is a suppressive fire machine.

 

Dogged Oniwaban would be characterful (ninjas complete the mission even if it kills them), but not necessary. Do we know how expensive Dogged is?

 

I've taken it. It's more useful if you are on more spread out tables where you'll have to count on the 8-16 range band on him since you have the extra burst there, but I always feel like the utility of the BSG is more useful.

It's only 2-3 points iirc. If you're looking to reason it out, comparing the BSG on the Tiger Soldier and Ragik should do it pretty easily.

 

In that case, might only be one point, since they're both 25pts and the difference is mimetism vs. dogged+religious. Moblots say Mimetism on a BS13 troop is 2pts (mimetism's benefits get better as BS increases).

 

Tiger is +1 BS, +1CC, -1WIP, +Mimetism, -V:Dogged, so if Mimetism is 2 points, V:Dogged has to be at least 3 (BS and WIP cancel, meaning dogged is the CC bump + mimetism).

 

As to the original question, it’s my assessment that JSA, more than most factions, plays a game that is very reliant on ensuring you declare the best possible 2nd short skill, and you’re often doing if within 8” of an opponent.

You can’t just shoot your problems away reliably, so you need to leverage the CQC killers, and that means you’re in BSG and chainrifle range with a 25-40pt piece.

This means that you’re often at risk for a serious up-trade with a very lightly armoured trooper and you often need to understand the perfect response to handcuff the opponent and avoid the trade.

I also play shock army, and find them to be much more forgiving of poor play. Contrastingly, when I’ve won hard games with my JSA, I’ve often left the table feeling like I made some crystalline decisions at close range: the dodge, the engage etc.

So, I’m not sure they’re “hard mode,” per se. I just think they rely on an aspect of the game that you don’t always lean into with other armies, and that feels foreign, or difficult, until you get the hang of it.


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Just to toss in my 5 eurocents: I have played quite a lot of factions (Ariadna, PanO, Aleph, QK and now finally JSA) and so far I have the feeling that although all factions play differently, this difference is largest in case of JSA. I would not say playing JSA is Infinity hard mode but the playstyle is very, very different from all other factions I have tried so far. Maybe It's not playing hard mode, just playing differently up to the point where a player's past experience with other factions are less useful than in case of other factions.
(Important disclaimer: I am not a good player.)

 

I play for several years with Nomads and Tohaa and the last year JSA as well. IMO JSA is hard mode, with the best pieces being glass cannons or scalpels if you prefer. This often means that you need to spend more orders to accomplish your goal, when compared to some other factions.

Still learning though and tbh I have a terrible time vs the new O.S.S. Aleph for example. Yestarday I faced 5x Yadu with Shakti + 3x Deva + Proxies and CSU and it was damn hard to do anything.