Am i right in thinking that the Hulang can use D-charges in combat mode using the martial arts special skill against terrain with structure rules. Since the new FAQ says that the terrain counts as a enemy and you can use your CC special skills. This is far better then using the normal D-charge rules as it only uses 1 short order instead of 2 short orders spread over 2 orders. Using the Hulang (using level 3 martial arts) is a auto success and even has a 15% chance to crit denying the structure a save for 1 of the 3 saves it would normally have to take. Or if you really wanted to you could use martial arts level 2 giving the attack damage 17 with a 5% chance to crit but also a 5% chance to miss (useful if you wanted to knock a wall out of the armory to fit a wider model into the armory for example). Plus while writing this i just remembered he can be in a duo fireteam meaning that in that 1 order he can basically attack with 2 D-charges which will also increase the damage by 1. So could this be the strongest weapon in the game even if it only works in CC against terrain and immobilized troops, if the enemy is not immobilized its still great but you need too roll better then their dice. B2, damage 18, AP+EXP with 5% chance to crit and 5% chance to miss the attack on each roll. However when against a trooper maybe its better to just ues the monofilament weapon as it got a 25% chance to crit against most enemies and if you hit normally it has a 60% chance to go straight to dead per burst.
D-Charges are only DAM 14 (which can not be improved by Martial Arts 1 or 2), but otherwise you are correct. O-Yoroi is otherwise stronger against most doors at DAM 18 EXP. And Miyamoto Musashi is also going to be stronger at MA5, PH 14, AP+EXP, with up to 2 people in a Haris -> CC 25 B3 DAM 19 AP + EXP
If you go fireteam, there are better buldozzer : the hospitalier : 5 CC 21, PH 20 (MA 2 + friends) DA attacks. Or better, take Joan and go EXP. If you want to go cheap : the bakunin uberfall commando : 4 CC 19 PH 16 DA rolls (using a pupnik to hit)
Absolutely! Plenty of better options than D-charges. I do think Miyamoto takes the cake for solo model, however. B2 DAM 14 AP+EXP -or- B1 DAM 17 AP+EXP takes a lot of cake. And at CC25.
Why can't D-charges be used with martial arts? Also while I'm asking can pistols with a CC trait be used with martial arts? I guess I should look at other options outside of yujing before making statements but still its a powerful attack while I'm working within yujing only.
It's Martial Arts 1 (-3 opponent CC and +1 PH) and Martial Arts 2 (+3 PH) that can't be effectively used with Pistols, D-Charges and any other melee weapon that does not use PH as their DAM value. Monofilament CCW is one such weapon, and highly relevant to the Hulang. These weapons have a set DAM value, increasing your PH through Coordinated Orders' Gang Up or Martial Arts will not increase their DAM. You can still use Martial Arts 3 (-3 opponent CC and +3 own CC) in order to make the attack more likely to succeed for the Hulang using Monofilament CCW or D-Charges.
http://infinitythewiki.com/en/CC_Special_Skills Damage mods specifically modify the Physique stat. Pistols, D-Charges etc don't make use of the PH stat so it doesn't affect them. The CC stat MOD still applies though when attacking with them.
The hulang is effectively either CC22 with a monofilament sword, or CC19 with AP+EXP D14 weapon, before martial art. And yeah this is the kind of trooper you want for missions like looting and sabotaging.
Thank you for reminding me of this. After only playing 1 game in the last 2 years some of the basics have been forgotten.
I think CC is the least used stat in the game so its understandable. Even in forces where CC is their “thing”. They may have one CC combat in a game but even that is a lot as far as my own experience is though.
Pre uprising I used to make use of CC alot between Oniwabans and Monks. Nowadays, not much outside of the Monks if they happen to reach something. To have an effective CC force you need several things The model needs to be able to reach targets. It needs aggressive forward deployment, a marker state to bypass open areas, Smoke so it can conduct the CC unmolested. Access to supportive firepower to remove ARO obstacles defending something you need to stab. Lethality. It takes alot of orders just to even reach CC. You can't afford for the model to be fucking about once it reaches there with a shock weapon or a shitty PH12 DA weapon trying to down something with a 5 armour and multiple wounds. You want to hit once, preferably crit and fucking delete it in one go. You need either Monofilament or a high PH EXP or DA+AP CCW. We used to pack all of these points. Now arguably we only have point 2. JSA on the other hand have 1 and 3, but lack good guns to reliably crack openings for the Oniwabans, and they also lost access to pairing them with Strategos 3 to further enable them to slip past defenses. The Hulang's pretty close to what we need as a replacement but realistically it's probably going to be forced to try and spray down targets more often than not with the burst 4 SMG rounds rather than trying to close in as it lacks a marker state to get across open areas and doesn't have its own smoke to get into position with. On the other hand I'm gonna have to buy at least 4 Hulang just so I can try to disguise it with a Kanren spawning Holo echoes everywhere. Pick one with a sniffer, maybe I can get spec fire grenades to work off a sat locked target.
It's possibly the one thing I find disappointing in Infinity is how hard it is to do CC. Yes I know it's a shooting game. However, I loose the cinematic feel of it when I can't have close combat. I was really excited for the Shikami but then gutted when we lost JSA. I was just about to buy them. Hulang is a step in the right direction for me.
Yes. I think they should rebalance CC. it´s a expensive stat and very, very, very unreliable since most of the time it´s B 1 x B 1.... we don´t have, as you said, the cinematic approach of the rest of the game.
They did rebalance CC in N3 Ah, those dark, dark times in second edition. God, it was pretty bad back then. It was also better for some troops, but I don't think we had any of those. Tho the old HMG ranges were very well apreciated by the Daofei. Also, that B1 vs B 1 is usually more reliable than B3 or 4 thanks to overwhelming MODs and higher than 20 CC values. I still remember the old CC 17 ninjas. We had no tactical bows back then.
Problem is, unlike BS Attack, a Zhanshi can not attempt to get better odds in melee against an SAS by having the initiative and spending an order on CC Attack. It'll be the same odds as during reactive turn.
Yes N3 was an improvement but I don’t think it’s saying much. I’ve been wanting to test out a change to CC to see how it works. MA could no longer have the +3 -3 stuff. Instead it would look like below. Essentially trading out the plusses for more dice. Not cumulative MA Level 1: +3 to Dmg. MA Level 2: +1 Attack, +3 to Dmg. MA Level 3: +2 Attack, +3 to Dmg. MA Level 4: +3 Attack, +3 to Dmg.
