1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

What does the bit about "paths" in Jump and Super-Jump mean?

Discussion in '[Archived]: N3 Rules' started by Hecaton, Jan 5, 2019.

  1. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    7,205
    Likes Received:
    6,535
    The rules don't really elaborate on this too much, but I recently played a game where someone said it meant you couldn't, say, jump 2" out from a balcony and then back to your starting point in the same short skill to get LoF to a target while super-jumping, but my understanding was that, since jumping followed the normal movement rules, you could move around and end up back where you started with it.
     
  2. helsbecter

    helsbecter Ultrademocratic subSenator, #dominion Module

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2017
    Messages:
    392
    Likes Received:
    553
    I think the Jump rule has enough guidance:
    • Allows the user to move horizontally (to clear a gap), vertically (to reach a higher or lower surface), diagonally or tracing a parabola, up to his first MOV Attribute value in inches.
    Doing a Super Mario style diagonal leap out and back doesn't really meet the standard of a parabola... I don't think you can end where you started with a super jump unless it's straight up. Like, I wouldn't bust someone's ass about their parabolic jump being exactly symmetrical (esp. when diagonal is legal) but saying it's parabolic strongly suggests you can't reverse trajectory like that.
     
  3. Wolf

    Wolf https://youtube.com/@StudioWatchwolf

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2017
    Messages:
    835
    Likes Received:
    969
    I think the jump word has enough guidance, to be honest! :grin:

    I get that people often believe they can make interpretations from the rules for things they want to do in the game, and - if the new play style is agreeable, even persuade others that their interpretation makes sense.

    In this situation, as in those situations generally, we can really only point out that there's no 'available reading' in the Jump and Super Jump rules for them to be anything but a game-modelled 'jump' in the normal sense of that word. Which myself, I believe is why they called it 'Jump' and not 'Jet Pack'. :smile:
     
    #3 Wolf, Jan 5, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2019
    A Mão Esquerda likes this.
  4. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    7,205
    Likes Received:
    6,535
    You can make a parabola like that. A parabola doesn't have to be perpendicular to the ground.
     
    helsbecter likes this.
  5. helsbecter

    helsbecter Ultrademocratic subSenator, #dominion Module

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2017
    Messages:
    392
    Likes Received:
    553
    Yeah, I guess it doesn't contemplate a jump not being perpendicular to the ground, does it. I wanna say "assume gravity" but this is a sci-fi game and Zero-G is a thing.
     
  6. toadchild

    toadchild Premeasure

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2017
    Messages:
    4,262
    Likes Received:
    8,073
    If you're following a parabolic path it should be up, away from the ground, and then returning back down to it. "Assume gravity".

    In 2nd edition Super-Jump was more like Limited Flight and had almost no restrictions on the path you followed. N3 is not that way.
     
    fenren and WarHound like this.
  7. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    7,205
    Likes Received:
    6,535
    I don't think the text really explicates that. A parabola can exist on planes that aren't perpendicular to the ground.
     
    the huanglong likes this.
  8. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2017
    Messages:
    7,331
    Likes Received:
    14,817
    Not when it's gravity that's causing the parabola.
     
  9. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    5,715
    Likes Received:
    6,472
    Is this actually a ruling or are we just talking physics here?
     
  10. helsbecter

    helsbecter Ultrademocratic subSenator, #dominion Module

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2017
    Messages:
    392
    Likes Received:
    553
    I think there's three kinds of jumps here, and one of them is fuzzy:
    • Gravity-based parabola. Perpendicular to the ground. Clearly follows the example. OK
    • Super Mario-style jump like in the OP. Doesn't follow a parabolic trajectory. NOT OK
    • Batman-style jump. Follows a parabola, but the path is defined by momentum rather than gravity. RAW OK?
    It's the future and I imagine all these dudes with superhuman jumping ability would be quick to invest in grappling hooks and shit, right?
     
    Hecaton likes this.
  11. toadchild

    toadchild Premeasure

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2017
    Messages:
    4,262
    Likes Received:
    8,073
    I’m aware of how math works, but I’m providing my interpretation of the rule as I was under the impression that was the purpose of this thread.
     
    oldGregg likes this.
  12. Wolf

    Wolf https://youtube.com/@StudioWatchwolf

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2017
    Messages:
    835
    Likes Received:
    969
    Well, the rule says the direction of the movement can be horizontal, vertical, diagonal OR tracing a parabola, so there isn't any question that units are indeed allowed to travel in a straight line as far as their movement value allows.

     
    ev0k and oldGregg like this.
  13. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2018
    Messages:
    2,556
    Likes Received:
    3,509
    Eh, why not? makes it less complicated
     
  14. WarHound

    WarHound Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2018
    Messages:
    133
    Likes Received:
    155
    We should stop feeding the troll.

    It's clear that Hecaton is trying to do some "I can suspend the illusion of Physics to get an edge in game" kind of thing. If he wants to play it that way, let him. It's his opponents I feel sorry for.
     
  15. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    7,205
    Likes Received:
    6,535
    Super-Jump is already a superhuman/supernatural ability. My question is perfectly reasonable. The fact that you think that a narrative/subjective interpretation will somehow not lead to more arguments, ill will, and bad faith playing/cheating is either extraordinarily shortsighted or trolling on your part.
     
    the huanglong and RogueJello like this.
  16. Andre82

    Andre82 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Messages:
    494
    Likes Received:
    559
    Realism and actual real world mechanics are fine as a guideline for say a RPG but completely unimportant when discussing a tournament game where RAW is king. His question might look cheeky or ridicules or even be RAI and answered by common sense... but if it is not RAW then it is house rule.


    I think you are correct here but from a game making standpoint Superjump probably should encompass something like "jet pack"
    I mean, I can't be the only one that assumes the Seraph's superjump probably has something to do with her wings and is not just from pure "leg power" that she moves around.
     
  17. RogueJello

    RogueJello Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    447
    Likes Received:
    436
    I'd also add the Ekdromoi also appear to have Jet Packs. They certainly don't appear to be super human in the same manner that most of the werewolf models that have super jump are.

    [​IMG]


    OTOH, I also don't think it's unreasonable to claim that the rules make an assumption that all jump movements will be governed by gravity, just like they make assumptions about what it means to "roll" a die.
     
    the huanglong likes this.
  18. A Mão Esquerda

    A Mão Esquerda Deputy Hexahedron Officer

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    3,394
    Likes Received:
    4,104
    Ekdromoi have drop packs since they’re AD troops, not owing to Super Jump, and they’re superhuman since they’re combat Lhosts, as are all SP troops.
     
    Dragonstriker and Wolf like this.
  19. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2017
    Messages:
    2,023
    Likes Received:
    3,657
    You'd only have to finish above where you started, which is very possible with a parabola. Superjump lets you fall without damage and the examples show it is possible to finish in mid air.

    I'd say the reason they have super jump is related to retro-thrusters, but it's speculation.
     
    RogueJello likes this.
  20. RogueJello

    RogueJello Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    447
    Likes Received:
    436
    That as well, but I was specifically told that they were jet packs. If you look at the legs on those models that don't appear to be anything out of the ordinary for a l-host, but none of the other l-hosts have super jump.
     
  • About Us

    We are a company founded in 2001 in Cangas (Spain), and devoted to design and manufacture games and figures. Our main product, Infinity the Game, was born with the ambition to satisfy the most demanding audience, offering the best quality.

     

    Why are we here?

     

    Because we are, first and foremost, players.

  • Quick Navigation

    Open the Quick Navigation