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What does the bit about "paths" in Jump and Super-Jump mean?

Discussion in 'Rules' started by Hecaton, Jan 5, 2019.

  1. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    The rules don't really elaborate on this too much, but I recently played a game where someone said it meant you couldn't, say, jump 2" out from a balcony and then back to your starting point in the same short skill to get LoF to a target while super-jumping, but my understanding was that, since jumping followed the normal movement rules, you could move around and end up back where you started with it.
     
  2. helsbecter

    helsbecter Ultrademocratic subSenator, #dominion Module

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    I think the Jump rule has enough guidance:
    • Allows the user to move horizontally (to clear a gap), vertically (to reach a higher or lower surface), diagonally or tracing a parabola, up to his first MOV Attribute value in inches.
    Doing a Super Mario style diagonal leap out and back doesn't really meet the standard of a parabola... I don't think you can end where you started with a super jump unless it's straight up. Like, I wouldn't bust someone's ass about their parabolic jump being exactly symmetrical (esp. when diagonal is legal) but saying it's parabolic strongly suggests you can't reverse trajectory like that.
     
  3. Wolf

    Wolf https://watchwolf.net

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    I think the jump word has enough guidance, to be honest! :grin:

    I get that people often believe they can make interpretations from the rules for things they want to do in the game, and - if the new play style is agreeable, even persuade others that their interpretation makes sense.

    In this situation, as in those situations generally, we can really only point out that there's no 'available reading' in the Jump and Super Jump rules for them to be anything but a game-modelled 'jump' in the normal sense of that word. Which myself, I believe is why they called it 'Jump' and not 'Jet Pack'. :smile:
     
    #3 Wolf, Jan 5, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2019
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  4. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    You can make a parabola like that. A parabola doesn't have to be perpendicular to the ground.
     
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  5. helsbecter

    helsbecter Ultrademocratic subSenator, #dominion Module

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    Yeah, I guess it doesn't contemplate a jump not being perpendicular to the ground, does it. I wanna say "assume gravity" but this is a sci-fi game and Zero-G is a thing.
     
  6. toadchild

    toadchild EI Aspect
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    If you're following a parabolic path it should be up, away from the ground, and then returning back down to it. "Assume gravity".

    In 2nd edition Super-Jump was more like Limited Flight and had almost no restrictions on the path you followed. N3 is not that way.
     
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  7. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    I don't think the text really explicates that. A parabola can exist on planes that aren't perpendicular to the ground.
     
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  8. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    Not when it's gravity that's causing the parabola.
     
  9. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Is this actually a ruling or are we just talking physics here?
     
  10. helsbecter

    helsbecter Ultrademocratic subSenator, #dominion Module

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    I think there's three kinds of jumps here, and one of them is fuzzy:
    • Gravity-based parabola. Perpendicular to the ground. Clearly follows the example. OK
    • Super Mario-style jump like in the OP. Doesn't follow a parabolic trajectory. NOT OK
    • Batman-style jump. Follows a parabola, but the path is defined by momentum rather than gravity. RAW OK?
    It's the future and I imagine all these dudes with superhuman jumping ability would be quick to invest in grappling hooks and shit, right?
     
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  11. toadchild

    toadchild EI Aspect
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    I’m aware of how math works, but I’m providing my interpretation of the rule as I was under the impression that was the purpose of this thread.
     
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  12. Wolf

    Wolf https://watchwolf.net

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    Well, the rule says the direction of the movement can be horizontal, vertical, diagonal OR tracing a parabola, so there isn't any question that units are indeed allowed to travel in a straight line as far as their movement value allows.

     
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  13. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener Kamau Amphibious Intervention Operative

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    Eh, why not? makes it less complicated
     
  14. WarHound

    WarHound Well-Known Member

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    We should stop feeding the troll.

    It's clear that Hecaton is trying to do some "I can suspend the illusion of Physics to get an edge in game" kind of thing. If he wants to play it that way, let him. It's his opponents I feel sorry for.
     
  15. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Super-Jump is already a superhuman/supernatural ability. My question is perfectly reasonable. The fact that you think that a narrative/subjective interpretation will somehow not lead to more arguments, ill will, and bad faith playing/cheating is either extraordinarily shortsighted or trolling on your part.
     
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  16. Andre82

    Andre82 Well-Known Member

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    Realism and actual real world mechanics are fine as a guideline for say a RPG but completely unimportant when discussing a tournament game where RAW is king. His question might look cheeky or ridicules or even be RAI and answered by common sense... but if it is not RAW then it is house rule.


    I think you are correct here but from a game making standpoint Superjump probably should encompass something like "jet pack"
    I mean, I can't be the only one that assumes the Seraph's superjump probably has something to do with her wings and is not just from pure "leg power" that she moves around.
     
  17. RogueJello

    RogueJello Well-Known Member

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    I'd also add the Ekdromoi also appear to have Jet Packs. They certainly don't appear to be super human in the same manner that most of the werewolf models that have super jump are.

    [​IMG]


    OTOH, I also don't think it's unreasonable to claim that the rules make an assumption that all jump movements will be governed by gravity, just like they make assumptions about what it means to "roll" a die.
     
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  18. A Mão Esquerda

    A Mão Esquerda Deputy Hexahedron Officer

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    Ekdromoi have drop packs since they’re AD troops, not owing to Super Jump, and they’re superhuman since they’re combat Lhosts, as are all SP troops.
     
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  19. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    You'd only have to finish above where you started, which is very possible with a parabola. Superjump lets you fall without damage and the examples show it is possible to finish in mid air.

    I'd say the reason they have super jump is related to retro-thrusters, but it's speculation.
     
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  20. RogueJello

    RogueJello Well-Known Member

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    That as well, but I was specifically told that they were jet packs. If you look at the legs on those models that don't appear to be anything out of the ordinary for a l-host, but none of the other l-hosts have super jump.