Healing unconscious Civilian in Unmasking

You may DR friendly Designated Target but not Enemy Designated Target or Neutral civvies (all HVTs).

Reasons:

Doctor is not a legal declaration when you are in the Engaged state. If you are in base contact with a Enemy Designated Target then your are in the Engaged state.

If a Neutral Civvie is in a Null state the game is over and the player that put them in that state has lost.

Edit: more technically correct verbiage.

 

Imo not clarified till now:

https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threa...ted-target-doctor-skill-losing-the-game.1632/

Civs are not troopers, they are either neutral or hostile and not in your army list. So to me it is a no.

 

the ITS9 Faq says about repairing missions objects:

17. VARIOUS: Engineers and Objectives ANSWERED
Are engineers allowed to repair damaged objectives? No

for a same reason we always assume what you cant heal unconscious HWT - else it would make chaos in some missions scoring.
But @HarlequinOfDeath right - where is no official answer yet...

 

http://wiki.infinitythegame.com/en/Civilian_Rules
REMEMBER
As Civilians are considered Neutral models, being in base to base contact with them doesn't activate the Engaged state (see Infinity N3).

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http://wiki.infinitythegame.com/en/Game_Elements:_Terminology_and_Alignment
Alignment
In Infinity it is important to define which game elements belong to each player side, and which ones belong to none. This determines if those game elements are capable of being attacked, and if so, from whom these attacks may come.

The Alignment adjectives help the players know the extent of the rules over certain game elements, like Troopers, Models...

• Enemy. Troopers that belong to the opposing player's Army List or to his team mate or team mates if the game is played in pairs or groups.
• Friendly. Troopers that belong to the player's Army List, or to those of a team mate, or team mates if the game is played in pairs or groups.
• Hostile. Civilians or game elements that do not belong to the Army Lists of either the player or the opponent, which are not a threat to them and are not capable of declaring Attacks but apply negative MODs to Troopers interacting with them. Hostile is considered a subgroup within Neutral, and therefore any rule mentioning the term Neutral also applies to the Hostile elements.
• Neutral. Civilians or game elements that do not belong to the Army Lists of either the player or the opponent, which are not a threat to them and are not capable of declaring Attacks.

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As far i can see there is nothing preventing it.
BTW, Doctor Skill's requirements don't state anywhere "Friendly", not even "Trooper". Just "Unconscious" and "with Wound attribute".

With ITS rues, the ENEMY HVT are considere enemy troopers (targetable by attacks, counts as engaged in btb, ecc...)

So, in Unmasking, you can heal (with a Doctor) the 3 HVT you placed and that you have to defend.

Disclaimer: OTOH a Paramedic has FRIENDLY TROOPER as requirement, HVT are not trooper...

 

That doesn't clarify it sufficiently?

@tox. Yeah I spoke loosely. That should read 'Enemy Designated Target' not 'Hostile Civvie'.

 

Hi,

I think here we have some interpretations:

1º - Engage state don't happen util the end of the order, in the conclusion of the order. Making an CC Attack is one exception in the regular phase of expediture order.

Engaged (from Wiki)


N3 Wiki > Main Sections > Appendices > Game States > Engaged
Contents

• 1 Marker
• 2 Activation
• 3 Effect
• 4 Cancellation
• 5 FAQ

Marker

None.


Activation

This state activates when the trooper is in base contact with an enemy trooper.


But if we make "first half order move" and the model goes in Base contact against a enemy troop, still our model can declare "shoot" (a CD Attack) as "second half order". This could be imposible if the "Engaged" state happends inmediatly after reach BBContact.

2º - Doctor can be use against any model. Because you are in Base to Base contact (not yet Engaged).

Optional. REQUIREMENTS

• The user must be in base to base contact with his target.
• The target must have a Wounds Attribute.
• The target must be in Unconscious state.

The problem only come if the doctor end his movement in Base to Base contact against two enemy models, because the doctor only could try to do doctor in the second half against one of them. In the next order Doc is really engaged. Or if in order to catch one enemy model the doctor have to do two movements. Them in the next order will be too engaged. Always talking of an enemy model.

In conclusion, yes, you are allowed to do "Doctor" against any model (if he is uncounscius, of course).

I hope this help everybody.

Best regards.

 

The reason you can shoot when you move into base to base is that you can declare BS Attack from a point in your movement where you are not Engaged. Doctor can't be declared from a point in your movement where you are not in base to base contact, meaning against a hostile target you can't pre-empt a Doctor declaration from a point where you are not in Close Combat because the only point in your movement where you'd be able to declare Doctor is where you are in Close Combat.

(As a side note, Engaged is probably the most under-utilized state in the rules since most of the interactions which you'd think relies on the Engaged state actually rely on being in Close Combat which is a non-state state of being for a model that doesn't rely on Engaged. This is a bit of curio more than anything else.)

 

Still, no state have effect until the order ends, so, you can declare doctor. Yes, are a few states which takes effect before, like prone, but all of them are explained in the rules.

 

That's not true. States are not like skills, they take effect immediately when they say they take effect and Engaged takes effect when you're in Base to Base contact with an enemy. You're confusing this with the fact that most states requiring you to declare a skill in order to have the state take effect which means the state itself is an effect of a skill.

 

i am sorry, but if its true, the HWT cant recive unconscious state, because Unconscious state activation clearly say:

A trooper that loses the last point of his Wounds/STR Attribute, leaving him with exactly zero, enters the Unconscious state automatically.

& it is the only way to activate Unconscious

 

• A Civilian is a game element with a Troop Profile that does not belong to the Army List of any player.

BTW, can you see the distinction beetween Friendly/Enemy TROOPERS and Neutral/Hostile CIVILIANS in one of the previous post?

 

That is why I mentioned it is not clear.

Civilians are not troopers and @ijw mentioned somewhere in the old forums that you have to take the whole rules and all the bullet points into consideration when interpreting rules. @Tristan288 mentioned this as well. And the effects below the requirements mention troopers only.

So to me it is not 100 % clear. Because of that a statement like "you are allowed to heal a neutral civilian" would be very nice. :)

 

Doctors DO NOT heal Troopers. They heal TARGET WITH WOUNDS.

 

I think their (somewhat silly) point is that only Troopers have an Unconscious state (needed for the Doctor to declare the skill). That being said... What would happen to an HVT after losing one wound, if he can't go Unconscious? Remains upright in a schrödinger state (like so many things in this game...), dies inmediately, activates NWI? XD

Frankly, I'd say yeah, doctor the HVT away. But if YOU fail healing YOUR doctor...

 

Don't be silly.

Only troopers can enter the Dead state.

 

Glad to hear that! Now I can plunge my HVT's to death by making them jump from a rooftop, without losing the game automatically XD

 

No need to be sarcastic. :) I just pointed out that there was an old thread about the topic and in a a very old thread it has been said, that you always have to take all bullet points into consideration. If you just take the upper part of the rule it is called 'target', but after that it says 'trooper'. It is just about rules. Nothing crucial for life. ;) In real life you could heal HVTs as well, but in games like XCOM you can't heal them.

 

@HellLois could we get an solution on Dedicated Targets, HVTs, Unconscious and healing with Doc?
Just came up at our tournament again.

 

One more question to this discussion - can a doctor heal unconscious enemy model?