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ITS Season 9 - Designated Target, Doctor Skill, & Losing the Game

Discussion in 'ITS' started by Lazarus0909, Feb 6, 2018.

  1. Lazarus0909

    Lazarus0909 Well-Known Member
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    Forgive me if this has been asked/answered, but the only thread I could find on this on the old forum seemed to be inconclusive. Essentially, a question came up at LVO concerning killing the HVT as a designated target.

    (Note, for reference the rules for Designated Target HVTs differs from killing a normal HVT in the following respect. Taken from a designated target scenario in ITS Season 9 - "In this scenario, the enemy HVT is considered an enemy trooper instead of a Neutral Civilian so, it can be targeted by Attacks. Killing the enemy HVT does not cause loss of the game nor gives compensatory Objective Points to the adversary.")

    So two important questions seem to come from this:
    1.) Can you use the doctor skill to revive an unconscious HVT? The doctor skill refers to troopers, and so this question comes about because the HVT is now an "enemy trooper" (not a neutral civilian). However, while being an enemy trooper to your opponent doesn't make it "friendly" to you, the doctor skill does not specify the target has to be "friendly" either (perhaps surprisingly).

    2.) So now a related question, if you fail the roll (even after command token expenditure), do you now lose the game? Note that the rule specifies that killing the enemy HVT does not cause you to lose the game, but it says nothing about killing your own.
     
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  2. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Two players: A and B. HVT A is enemy of player B, but neutral to player A. Medikit cannot be used on any non-allied troop, but Doctor can be used on any miniature. So player A can use Doctor on HVT A, and player B can use doctor on HVT B. This is RAW.

    Doctor was not limited by side because you have to touch the target model's base, and if the model is an enemy that puts you into Engaged state, so you cannot Doctor enemy troops. Medikit allows firing at range, and was in fact used as a shock gun back in the day (enemy with 1 wound and not unconscious? Roll PH-3 instead of ARM or get out of the table)., so it was reworded to be usable only on allied troops.

    The wording on what happens if the HVT dies does not seem to target any player but both, so I think failing doctor's rolls to recover the HVT won't make you lose the game (but your enemy will get the points for killing your HVT).
     
  3. Tristan228

    Tristan228 Morlock trainer
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    Also RAW if you read further:
    Since HVTs are no troopers they can't be healed.
     
  4. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    They're definitely troopers.
     
  5. Tristan228

    Tristan228 Morlock trainer
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    Wiki / N3 Rulebook:
    HVTs do not belong to an army list.

    Since FAQ v1.1:
    Self-explaining.

    And where is the proof/rule supporting your claim?
     
    #5 Tristan228, Feb 13, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
  6. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    The fact that DTs can perform AROs and so on. Only Troopers possess those skills and can act in that way.

    Actually, the tournament rules specifically say that DTs are considered troopers. That's the only time this would be relevant. ITS Season 9 p. 8 @Tristan228
     
  7. Lazarus0909

    Lazarus0909 Well-Known Member
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    Exactly - the ITS packet itself says quite clearly that they count as "enemy troopers" (instead of their usual role) so therein lies the problem. The further you read into this then the muddier it gets, as troopers normally count as something in your list and can spend orders (as that wiki quote above indicates), so it feels like something is missing here as I'm sure spending orders on the HVT was not intended!
     
  8. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    My interpretation was that since the DT is neither regular nor irregular it cannot activate via active turn order, only via ARO. Unless the controlling player CivEvacs it, of course...
     
  9. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    As I understand it they're no longer civilians, so you can't CivEvac them anymore.

    "In some scenarios, the enemy HVTs are considered enemy troopers instead of Neutral Civilians, so they cannot be targeted by Attacks."
     
  10. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    How do you complete the Kidnapping Classified in the missions that have both Classified objectives and DT's?
     
  11. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Same way you try to secure HVT on missions that need you to kill a DT, you don't. Because killing the HVT is worth more.
     
  12. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Nah, you can do it. Objectives that require you to interact with the HVT work as written in missions with a DT.
     
  13. krossaks

    krossaks Well-Known Member

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    As we play:

    1- your own HTV falls unconscious by an enemy action, point for your opponent. if abefore the end of the game you heal it your opponent won't get the point. If you kill the HTV while healing it you just confirm your opponent points.

    2- we understand that HTV is this kind of misions is a troop, then interact with doctors in a normal way.

    3- the rules aren't clear, the normal HTV rules don't fitt well with new its 9 HTV rules. Maybe we should ask on faq secction.
     
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  14. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    The point is you don't do it because it makes no sense to do it. You can kidnap/secure the HVT for 1 point. Or shoot them for 2-4pts depending on the mission.

    You wouldn't do it. It's basically a dead card in this situation. You got unlucky, like drawing 2 ones requiring a doctor/paramedic that you didn't bring. You can still default to Secure HVT, but you're never gonna do that in a mission with DTs because that doesn't make any sense at all.
     
  15. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    You can knock them unconscious and secure the body.
     
  16. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Well if you reckon you can finangle that, then do that. Kidnap's a dud card you can't do, just secure HVT instead.
     
  17. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    You *can* do it, it's just not usually the right call. Same way you can, say, Inoculate a DT.
     
  18. Tristan228

    Tristan228 Morlock trainer
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    • Are these Enemy Troopers still part of the enemy's Army List? No.
    • And are you able to expend your regular oders whilst activating your HVT? No.
    These skills apply only to troopers. Further you contradict yourself with following claim:
    How will you be able to go in CivEvac state with an enemy trooper? HVT: Kidnapping doesn't work since there is no CivEvac state possible even with an uncocious trooper. Also anything else requiring base contact except Extreme Pejudice (see the Rules of Engaged State)

    Overall, just because the enemy sees an HVT as an enemy trooper it doesn't automatically makes it a(n allied) trooper for you.
    Like @ijw said in the old forum I believe.
    And why did no one ask @HellLois about that?
     
    #18 Tristan228, Feb 14, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018
  19. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    No Kidnap's a dud card. You can't CivEvac because there's no Civilian to civ evac with, they're enemy troopers for DT missions.
     
  20. HarlequinOfDeath

    HarlequinOfDeath Tha Taskmastaaa
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    I am with @Tristan228. And I think it has been stated in the old forums as well.

    For the purpose of AROs and CivEvac they are considered as enemy troopers for your opponent. For yourself, it is still your HVT, so you can sync it.

    Considerung your Classified you have to choose another or drop that point(s). If the Designated Target is unconscious/dead, it is lost.

    The question to @HellLois would be, if CB would allow us to sync them as hostile target with WIP-3. But then you can't kill it... ;)

    EDIT: Found the passage in the old forums:

    http://infinitytheforums.com/forum/topic/50540-its-9-rules-questions-1-unanswered/

    4. DESIGNATED TARGET, page 7 - " enemy HVTs are considered enemy troopers instead of Neutral Civilians, so they cannot be targeted by Attacks."
    ANSWERED: This is an uncorrected typo, it should read "...they can be targeted..."

    24. DESIGNATED TARGET: Can you synch with your own Designated Target in missions where there is one? ANSWERED : Yep.
     
    #20 HarlequinOfDeath, Feb 14, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018
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