Exile and Veteran

Curious on this one as well. We've always ruled that it does not break the link, since that is specified as a side effect of the isolation effect.

edit: of course, you could read it as a side effect of the Exile skill itself (but generally skills with multiple effects don't list parts of them as 'side effects,' at least insofar as I can recall).

 

Fairly certain the answer was "yes. They're actually two different effects"... But I can't remember. It's certainly a conversation that's been had before.

Edit: https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/exile-and-number-2.22854/

I think this is the best answer on it (by@Spleen):

""Como Efecto añadido" - "As an added effect"

It's almost certainly a translation issue given this is the spanish, and I'm sure in at least one of those threads you linked I've brought up the exact same thing before (edit: Turns out not those specific ones). Although I think people still tried to claim it was an added effect of isolated, not the skill, so it doesn't entirely resolve the matter."

 

Well, since cancelling the Fireteam is not part of the effects derived from Isolated (it's not part of the Isolated effects), being a Veteran should not protect against what is an Exile effect.

 

I believe the old ruling was that you can't exile veteran as the cancellation comes along with the isolation bold for emphasis:

• Failing the BTS Roll causes the target to enter the Isolated state, signified by an Isolated Marker (ISOLATED) in base to base contact.
• As a side effect, the Fireteam is cancelled, even if the target was not the Team Leader, so the player must remove the correspondent Team Leader Marker from the game table.

 

The issue is whether cancelling the Fireteam is a side effect of putting the target into the Isolated state, or a side effect of the target 'failing the BTS Roll'.

 

Fair, I'd be interested to see how this one falls, as a member of the E-drone in every list subcommittee I play it as I've mentioned, if it effects Bolts, Vet kazaks, and morats too I certainly will not be piping up to complain!

Don't think it sheds any more light on it but the next line is:

• Critical hits with Exile cause the target to enter Isolated state directly, bypassing the BTS Roll. As a side effect, the Fireteam is cancelled.

Unless there are other effects with criticals or states which have a similar outcome that's more clear? Only thing I can immediately think of is EM where the imm2 for HI, REM, TAG is referred to as an "addition" rather than a side effect.
Technically if it's not intended as being in relation to the failed BTS roll (and therefore isolation effect) then just hitting somebody with exile would break a team which is clearly not what is intended (I wouldn't complain about that either, bent as it would be).

 

I've always played it that it breaks the fireteam but doesn't isolate the veteran; "side effect" would imply it's an additional effect of the program.

 

Check the Spanish. I wouldn't be surprised if the 'addition' and 'side effect' were slightly different translations of the same Spanish text.

The way I read it (based on the Spanish and layout) is that Exile applies 2 independent effects after a failed BTS roll.

 

So I was looking for a comparable case that does damage and applies a state, or the like. Fire ammo states that it causes a save for damage and "additionally" the burnt state. In the Spanish it uses "ademas" which is what is translated to "additionally" in the English version of the rule.

For Exile, as @inane.imp pointed out, it uses "Como efects amadido" in the non-critical effect. But it uses "ademas" for the critical.

I don't know if that clears up any more, but if it is "additionally" in the critical, I think it is likely fair to assume that "Como efects amadido" can be read as synonymous with "additionally"

 

I can't remember where this came from, (and/or who told me this), but I always thought units with the Veteran skill can be put into the Isolated state; they simply ignore its effects.
In which case, the Fireteam would always break from Exile as they'd gain the state regardless of any skills.

(IIRC, this also comes into play with one of the missions).

 

I guess that comes down to which of the following is true;

1. The Link disbands because the model is in the Isolated State.
2. The Link disbands because the model is affected by the Isolated State.
3. The Link disbands because they failed the BTS roll from the Hacking attack.

Unfortunately I can't confirm it right now, but if @ijw's phrasing is correct, (and he usually is!), then I'd say it's either #1 or #3 - so either way the link breaks.

 

Isolated state only cause the fireteam to break if the team leader is Isolated
Exile cause fireteam to break no matter the target

I think it's proof enough that the isolation is not the cause of the fireteam break and should work on Vet Kaz... Veteran

 

My two cents on this would be that the link is broken due to the wording, but no one is isolated because they ignore the isolation, which means, they can reform the link on their next turn.

 

how do you rationalize that to not hitting the teamleader then?

Because if its just reinforcing the effect of the isolated state, then any member can be isolated, it itsn going to break the link unless they are the leader.

As such it really needs to be perceived as an effect caused by the program, to which Veterans are not immune