Since they’ve shown some new HI to come and there’s a bunch of different threads discussing pretty much the same issues with YJ and heavy Infantry, I thought I’d make a new thread to discuss all aspects of YJ and their Heavy Infantry. One of my favorite things about playing YJ was the powered armor bad asses I think they are. I’ve created a list of the ones we have with skills, point ranges, and what sectoral they are/may be in. I always think it's good to look at all of the data. (ISS) Crane Agent, 47-52pts Kinematica L2, MA L3, Sensor, X-Visor Lt., Assault Hacker Boarding Shotgun, 2 Nanopulsar Spitfire, 2 Nanopulsars Multi-Rifle, 2 Nanopulsars Pistol, DA CCW (Vanilla only) Daofei, 48-59pts Camo, Infiltration Lt., Assault Hacker Multi-Rifle HMG Boarding Shotgun Spitfire Pistol, Shock CCW (ISS) Hsien, 52-61pts MSV L2, MA L1 Lt. Multi-Rifle, Nanopulsar Multi-Rifle, Nanopulsar, Tinbot L2 HMG, Nanopulsar Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulsar Lt. Multi-Rifle, Nanopulsar, Tinbot L2 Pistol, AP CCW (IA) Hac Tao, 59-70pts TO Camo, Kinematika L1 Assault Hacker, Killer Hacker, Executive Order Multi-Rifle, Nanopulsar HMG, Nanopulsar Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulsar Missile Launcher, Nanopulsar Pistol, DA CCW (IA) Shang Ji Invicibles, 37-43pts Kinematika L1, Duo Lt., Assault Hacker, Medic Combi Rifle+Lt. Flamethrower Combi Rifle+Lt. Flamethrower, 1 Tinbot B Multi-Rifle Heavy Rocket Launcher, Lt. Shotgun Spitfire Spitfire with Tactical Awareness Combi Rifle+Tinbot L2 with Tactical Awareness Pistol, Shock CCW (ISS) Su-Jian, 54-59pts Combat form: Remote Presence, NWI, Mech Transmutation Mobility form: Climb+, Kinematika L2, Multiterrain Spitfire, Lt. Flamethrower, Panzerfaust Heavy Shotgun, Lt. Flamethrower, Panzerfaust Heavy Pistol, CCW (ISS) Sun Tze, 55-65pts Mimetisim, Stratego L3 (Lt), Total Immunity, NWI, Advanced Command Lt. Boarding Shotgun, 2 Nanopulsars, Flash Pulse Multi-Rifle, 2 Nanopulsars, Flash Pulse Pistol, Knife Note: This is because of the changes to TI. ST can use the BTS of 6 instead of ARM4. (ISS) Wu Ming, 25-39pts Kinematika L1 Forward Observer Multi-Rifle+LGL HMG Multi-Rifle+Nimbus LGL Boarding Shotgun+Tin Bot L2 Heavy Rocket Launcher, Lt. Shotgun Panzerfaust, Lt. Shotgun Boarding Shotgun, Flash Pulse Combi Rifle, Light Rocket Launcher Chain Rifle, Submachine Gun Combi Rifle+E/Mitter, AntiP Mines Pistol, Knife (IA) Yan Huo Invincibles, 52-56pts Lt. Multi HMG Hyper Rapid Magnetic Cannon 2 Missile Launchers Pistol, Knife (IA) Zuyong Invincible, 26-39pts Kinematika L1 Lt., Forward Observer, Medic Combi Rifle Combi Rifle+Tinbot L2 HMG Boarding Shotgun Multi-Rifle Missile Launcher, Lt. Shotgun HMG with Tactical Awareness Combi Rifle+Tinbot L2 with Tactical Awareness Combi Rifle, Flash Pulse (IA) Haidao, 24-37pts 1 Wound with NWI, Shock Immune, Free Agent, Zero-G Killer Hacker, Engineer, Chain of Command (IA only) Combi Rifle Boarding Shotgun Red Fury Multi-Sniper with MSV2 (IA) Zhencha, 34-41pts. 1 Wound with NWI Infiltration, Camo, Multiterrain, Climbing Plus FO, AHD Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges SMG, DEP, MInes Boarding Shotgun (IA) Liu Xing 32-39pts 1 Wound with NWI, Bioimmunity Explode LX, Combat Jump, Kinematika L1 Specialist Operative, AHD Boarding Shotgun Spitfire Multi-Rifle, D-Chargest (IA) Daoying NOT HI! (IA) Mowang 50-54pts Armor 5, 2 Wound with NWI, Mimetisim NCO, Lt. Multi-Rifle, Flammenspeer Spitfire, Flammenspeer Red Fury, Flammenspeer Sorted by Points 26-45ish (IA) Zuyong Invincible (ISS) Wu Ming (IA-Unconfirmed) Shang Ji Invicibles 45-50 (ISS) Crane Agent 48-59 (Unknown) Daofei (ISS) Su-Jian (IA) Yan Huo Invincibles 52-65 (ISS) Hsien (ISS) Sun Tze 59-68 (IA) Hac Tao
We can also add: Sun1 and the Hsien appear to be wearing the same armor. Crane and Shang Ji appear to be wearing the same armor. Daofei is wearing the recon-optimized version of the old bird-beak armor, and Wu Ming are wearing bird-beak armor. Hac Tao is wearing it's own thing. Yan Huo is wearing it's own thing.
Whilst perhaps not entirely necessary I would like to see notes to highlight which of our HI have access to hackers (including what type) and also those that have access to tinbots. This isn't particularly important by itself but can be when you consider sectorial fire-teams. A lot of our HI can take a hacker of some kind (Hac tao, Daofei, Shang ji and Crane) and 4 of them can take a tinbot profile (Hsien, Wu ming, Shang ji and Zuyong). In particular for IA, I suspect the option to put a hacker in a fire-team with a tinbot will prove to be a significant part of the sectorials game and resilience against enemy hacking. I have tried this with a Zhanying as part of a wu ming team and also a Hsien with a Zhanying haris. It's a fun and impressive little package (although it does admittedly also bring some weaknesses) that I hope IA get to fully take advantage of.
Thanks. FIxed it. I changed the range of the figs from 48-60 too. So what do we see by the data? Huge jump in pts from the Zuyong to from 26-39. I hope one of the new HI will be maybe in the 30-40pt range. We don't need much more that's above 48+
45-50 is a very specific range, seems almost gerimandered to avoid putting Shang-Ji in a category outside Zuyong :p
To be fair, though, the Shang Ji isn't currently enough better/different from a Zuyong to be worth taking. I'm not sure bumping the basic Shang Ji up to Crane stats is necessarily worthwhile, but that's about what I'd expect for something enough better than a Zuyong to be worth taking instead of 1.5-2x Zuyong. Sensor and/or MSV excluded, mind you. You need sensor and/or MSV to deal with those damn Shasvasti, after all! What we're probably looking at is the Shang Ji getting a bit better and more expensive (boo!). I think 'only' Sensor (or MSV2) would work, so it's maybe +5pts to the profiles across the board. The problem is that Invincible Army needs to be able to get 7x HI in ~230pts (makes for an average of 33pts a trooper), so that you can have a 10-order 300pt list with EVObot, Weibing, and one other REM. That's including HI doc and engineer from the Haidao. I would hope that the November change is going to include a re-evaluation of how much ARM is worth, because ARM3 (where most of the IA troops are) is one of the spots where it's obviously more expensive than it 'should' be. I think that would save ~2pts per HI, maybe more at the ARM5 beatsticks.
I think the November thing is gaining way too much traction for how little CB has said about it. They said some profiles might get updated, and never suggested a full rework of anything (unless they have clarified past the short little blurb about it). Or to put it another way, folks shouldn't get their hopes up of CB doing any kind of rework except for things that are getting affected directly by new releases. I'd love to be pleasantly surprised, but I wouldn't hold my breath, nor has CB really given us any reason to. Not that I'm trying to cut them any slack (and they really should eventually do a big point rework now that the game has basically become a living ruleset as it should have been), but what they said about November is not suggestive of any kind of sweeping change (again, unless they've further clarified). As a general note, I've seen this come up enough that CB should really pop in and issue a more definitive statement of intent here before folks blow it out of proportion. CB doesn't want to get behind on managing folks' expectations again.
Agreed. Be careful what you wish for because you might get it. The changes they make could be to make something worse rather than better because they think it helps the force as a whole. Edit: I'm starting to think as some do that the Shang-Ji is going to disappear to be replaced by the new ones. I hope not because I really like the design. I always thought it had a cool Dragon-Like look to it.
There are also two Duo Wu Ming profiles and the Su Jian also has it, and I would suggest adding the TinBot B to the Shang Ji, Zuyong and Wu Ming.
Thanks. I updated that and broke out the ranges a bit more for those top HI. I'm thinking of keeping it kind of Vanilla here. HI in all of Yu Jing. I'm not sure if an option for a Tin Bot merits putting it down. Then I'd need to add all of the weapons too.
@Space Ranger I don't think you need to list all the weapons but I can see reason for noting down which HI have a profile with access to a Tinbot. Because all members of fire-teams benefit from a tinbot, it can make the whole list much more resistant to hacking threats as well as situationally more threatening as well.
Exceptional weapons might be good if it's neant to be a reference. Which weapon is the heaviest rapid fire weapon (typically Spitfire or HMG) if they have a long ranged template (e.g. Missile Launcher), or if they speculative fire weapons.
Ok I've updated the OP with weapons. Luckily I have everything already in an Excel file. I used to make lists with it because I couldn't go to the Army builder at work lol. I find it funny that Sun Tze doesn't have a CCW. Whether he was a combat guy or not, you'd think YJ would want him to have something better than a knife.
LOL you know I still like a lot of the old sculpts but NOT that one! I thought it was a fail even at the time.
