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Heavy Infantry in Vanilla, IA, & ISS

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by Space Ranger, Aug 17, 2018.

  1. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Since they’ve shown some new HI to come and there’s a bunch of different threads discussing pretty much the same issues with YJ and heavy Infantry, I thought I’d make a new thread to discuss all aspects of YJ and their Heavy Infantry. One of my favorite things about playing YJ was the powered armor bad asses I think they are.

    I’ve created a list of the ones we have with skills, point ranges, and what sectoral they are/may be in. I always think it's good to look at all of the data.

    (ISS) Crane Agent, 47-52pts
    Kinematica L2, MA L3, Sensor, X-Visor
    Lt., Assault Hacker
    Boarding Shotgun, 2 Nanopulsar
    Spitfire, 2 Nanopulsars
    Multi-Rifle, 2 Nanopulsars
    Pistol, DA CCW

    (Vanilla only) Daofei, 48-59pts
    Camo, Infiltration
    Lt., Assault Hacker
    Multi-Rifle
    HMG
    Boarding Shotgun
    Spitfire
    Pistol, Shock CCW

    (ISS) Hsien, 52-61pts
    MSV L2, MA L1
    Lt.
    Multi-Rifle, Nanopulsar
    Multi-Rifle, Nanopulsar, Tinbot L2
    HMG, Nanopulsar
    Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulsar
    Lt. Multi-Rifle, Nanopulsar, Tinbot L2
    Pistol, AP CCW

    (IA) Hac Tao, 59-70pts
    TO Camo, Kinematika L1
    Assault Hacker, Killer Hacker, Executive Order
    Multi-Rifle, Nanopulsar
    HMG, Nanopulsar
    Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulsar
    Missile Launcher, Nanopulsar
    Pistol, DA CCW

    (IA) Shang Ji Invicibles, 37-43pts
    Kinematika L1, Duo
    Lt., Assault Hacker, Medic
    Combi Rifle+Lt. Flamethrower
    Combi Rifle+Lt. Flamethrower, 1 Tinbot B
    Multi-Rifle
    Heavy Rocket Launcher, Lt. Shotgun
    Spitfire
    Spitfire with Tactical Awareness
    Combi Rifle+Tinbot L2 with Tactical Awareness
    Pistol, Shock CCW

    (ISS) Su-Jian, 54-59pts
    Combat form: Remote Presence, NWI, Mech Transmutation
    Mobility form: Climb+, Kinematika L2, Multiterrain
    Spitfire, Lt. Flamethrower, Panzerfaust
    Heavy Shotgun, Lt. Flamethrower, Panzerfaust
    Heavy Pistol, CCW

    (ISS) Sun Tze, 55-65pts
    Mimetisim, Stratego L3 (Lt), Total Immunity, NWI, Advanced Command
    Lt.
    Boarding Shotgun, 2 Nanopulsars, Flash Pulse
    Multi-Rifle, 2 Nanopulsars, Flash Pulse
    Pistol, Knife
    Note: This is because of the changes to TI. ST can use the BTS of 6 instead of ARM4.

    (ISS) Wu Ming, 25-39pts
    Kinematika L1
    Forward Observer
    Multi-Rifle+LGL
    HMG
    Multi-Rifle+Nimbus LGL
    Boarding Shotgun+Tin Bot L2
    Heavy Rocket Launcher, Lt. Shotgun
    Panzerfaust, Lt. Shotgun
    Boarding Shotgun, Flash Pulse
    Combi Rifle, Light Rocket Launcher
    Chain Rifle, Submachine Gun
    Combi Rifle+E/Mitter, AntiP Mines
    Pistol, Knife

    (IA) Yan Huo Invincibles, 52-56pts
    Lt.
    Multi HMG
    Hyper Rapid Magnetic Cannon
    2 Missile Launchers
    Pistol, Knife

    (IA) Zuyong Invincible, 26-39pts
    Kinematika L1
    Lt., Forward Observer, Medic
    Combi Rifle
    Combi Rifle+Tinbot L2
    HMG
    Boarding Shotgun
    Multi-Rifle
    Missile Launcher, Lt. Shotgun
    HMG with Tactical Awareness
    Combi Rifle+Tinbot L2 with Tactical Awareness
    Combi Rifle, Flash Pulse

    (IA) Haidao, 24-37pts
    1 Wound with NWI, Shock Immune, Free Agent, Zero-G
    Killer Hacker, Engineer, Chain of Command (IA only)
    Combi Rifle
    Boarding Shotgun
    Red Fury
    Multi-Sniper with MSV2

    (IA) Zhencha, 34-41pts.
    1 Wound with NWI
    Infiltration, Camo, Multiterrain, Climbing Plus
    FO, AHD
    Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges
    SMG, DEP, MInes
    Boarding Shotgun

    (IA) Liu Xing 32-39pts
    1 Wound with NWI, Bioimmunity
    Explode LX, Combat Jump, Kinematika L1
    Specialist Operative, AHD
    Boarding Shotgun
    Spitfire
    Multi-Rifle, D-Chargest

    (IA) Daoying NOT HI!

    (IA) Mowang 50-54pts
    Armor 5, 2 Wound with NWI, Mimetisim
    NCO, Lt.
    Multi-Rifle, Flammenspeer
    Spitfire, Flammenspeer
    Red Fury, Flammenspeer

    Sorted by Points
    26-45ish
    (IA) Zuyong Invincible
    (ISS) Wu Ming
    (IA-Unconfirmed) Shang Ji Invicibles

    45-50
    (ISS) Crane Agent

    48-59
    (Unknown) Daofei
    (ISS) Su-Jian
    (IA) Yan Huo Invincibles

    52-65
    (ISS) Hsien
    (ISS) Sun Tze


    59-68
    (IA) Hac Tao
     
    #1 Space Ranger, Aug 17, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2019
    Azuset likes this.
  2. YueFei23

    YueFei23 Durian Inspector

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    Good summary. Sun Tze also gives you Advanced Command - an extra command token.
     
  3. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Thanks. Added.
     
  4. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    We can also add:

    Sun1 and the Hsien appear to be wearing the same armor.

    Crane and Shang Ji appear to be wearing the same armor.

    Daofei is wearing the recon-optimized version of the old bird-beak armor, and Wu Ming are wearing bird-beak armor.

    Hac Tao is wearing it's own thing.

    Yan Huo is wearing it's own thing.
     
    Maksimas likes this.
  5. REND

    REND Well-Known Member

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    Whilst perhaps not entirely necessary I would like to see notes to highlight which of our HI have access to hackers (including what type) and also those that have access to tinbots.

    This isn't particularly important by itself but can be when you consider sectorial fire-teams. A lot of our HI can take a hacker of some kind (Hac tao, Daofei, Shang ji and Crane) and 4 of them can take a tinbot profile (Hsien, Wu ming, Shang ji and Zuyong). In particular for IA, I suspect the option to put a hacker in a fire-team with a tinbot will prove to be a significant part of the sectorials game and resilience against enemy hacking. I have tried this with a Zhanying as part of a wu ming team and also a Hsien with a Zhanying haris. It's a fun and impressive little package (although it does admittedly also bring some weaknesses) that I hope IA get to fully take advantage of.
     
  6. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Lt. and specialists added.
     
  7. Paegis

    Paegis Vincible

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    I think you meant to type 48-59 pts for the Daofei.
     
  8. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Thanks. FIxed it. I changed the range of the figs from 48-60 too.

    So what do we see by the data? Huge jump in pts from the Zuyong to from 26-39.

    I hope one of the new HI will be maybe in the 30-40pt range. We don't need much more that's above 48+
     
  9. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    45-50 is a very specific range, seems almost gerimandered to avoid putting Shang-Ji in a category outside Zuyong :p
     
  10. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    To be fair, though, the Shang Ji isn't currently enough better/different from a Zuyong to be worth taking. I'm not sure bumping the basic Shang Ji up to Crane stats is necessarily worthwhile, but that's about what I'd expect for something enough better than a Zuyong to be worth taking instead of 1.5-2x Zuyong. Sensor and/or MSV excluded, mind you. You need sensor and/or MSV to deal with those damn Shasvasti, after all!

    What we're probably looking at is the Shang Ji getting a bit better and more expensive (boo!). I think 'only' Sensor (or MSV2) would work, so it's maybe +5pts to the profiles across the board.

    The problem is that Invincible Army needs to be able to get 7x HI in ~230pts (makes for an average of 33pts a trooper), so that you can have a 10-order 300pt list with EVObot, Weibing, and one other REM. That's including HI doc and engineer from the Haidao.

    I would hope that the November change is going to include a re-evaluation of how much ARM is worth, because ARM3 (where most of the IA troops are) is one of the spots where it's obviously more expensive than it 'should' be. I think that would save ~2pts per HI, maybe more at the ARM5 beatsticks.
     
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  11. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member

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    I think the November thing is gaining way too much traction for how little CB has said about it. They said some profiles might get updated, and never suggested a full rework of anything (unless they have clarified past the short little blurb about it). Or to put it another way, folks shouldn't get their hopes up of CB doing any kind of rework except for things that are getting affected directly by new releases.

    I'd love to be pleasantly surprised, but I wouldn't hold my breath, nor has CB really given us any reason to. Not that I'm trying to cut them any slack (and they really should eventually do a big point rework now that the game has basically become a living ruleset as it should have been), but what they said about November is not suggestive of any kind of sweeping change (again, unless they've further clarified).

    As a general note, I've seen this come up enough that CB should really pop in and issue a more definitive statement of intent here before folks blow it out of proportion. CB doesn't want to get behind on managing folks' expectations again.
     
  12. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. Be careful what you wish for because you might get it. The changes they make could be to make something worse rather than better because they think it helps the force as a whole.

    Edit: I'm starting to think as some do that the Shang-Ji is going to disappear to be replaced by the new ones. I hope not because I really like the design. I always thought it had a cool Dragon-Like look to it.
     
    #12 Space Ranger, Aug 21, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2018
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  13. Joametz

    Joametz Chinese Empire in Space enthusiast

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    Sun1 has a 65 pts MULTI Rifle version, it says 55-60.
     
  14. xt828

    xt828 New Member

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    There are also two Duo Wu Ming profiles and the Su Jian also has it, and I would suggest adding the TinBot B to the Shang Ji, Zuyong and Wu Ming.
     
  15. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Thanks. I updated that and broke out the ranges a bit more for those top HI.

    I'm thinking of keeping it kind of Vanilla here. HI in all of Yu Jing. I'm not sure if an option for a Tin Bot merits putting it down. Then I'd need to add all of the weapons too.
     
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  16. REND

    REND Well-Known Member

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    @Space Ranger I don't think you need to list all the weapons but I can see reason for noting down which HI have a profile with access to a Tinbot. Because all members of fire-teams benefit from a tinbot, it can make the whole list much more resistant to hacking threats as well as situationally more threatening as well.
     
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  17. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Exceptional weapons might be good if it's neant to be a reference. Which weapon is the heaviest rapid fire weapon (typically Spitfire or HMG) if they have a long ranged template (e.g. Missile Launcher), or if they speculative fire weapons.
     
  18. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Ok I've updated the OP with weapons. Luckily I have everything already in an Excel file. I used to make lists with it because I couldn't go to the Army builder at work lol.

    I find it funny that Sun Tze doesn't have a CCW. Whether he was a combat guy or not, you'd think YJ would want him to have something better than a knife.
     
  19. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Especially as original-sculpt Sun1 was waving a sword around!

    [​IMG]
     
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  20. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    LOL you know I still like a lot of the old sculpts but NOT that one! I thought it was a fail even at the time. :unamused: