An Active player and Reactive player are in base to base contact within Smoke. Do they have LoF to each other? I assume the answer is no.
Does it matter ? I assume the answer is no. The requirement for CC Attack is only: REQUIREMENTS The user must be in base to base contact with an enemy. Same for using doctor/engineer while inside a smoke. Or activating a mission objective covered in smoke.
Yeah. You have LoF to whatever you're in B2B with. The smoke just keeps you from drawing LoF before they touch.
And how do you come to that conclusion? I have LoF to an enemy 10" away if there are no obstacles and I can draw a line from my front 180 arc to them, Smoke prevents that. What's the difference if the player is in base to base? Base to base may change my arc of LoF but Smoke is still rather explicit about drawing LoF. Troopers cannot draw LoF through a Zero Visibility Zone. Yes it matters. You can use CC Attacks and other skills only requiring base to base contact. But you can't use a Dodge as it requires LoF.
http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Line_of_Fire_(LoF) LoF of Figures in CC Figures engaged in CC can draw a 360˚ LoF, but only to whatever they are in base contact with. http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Zero_Visibility_Zone Inside a Zero Visibility Zone, troopers can only declare Skills that do not require LoFor that require them to be in base to base contact with their target. In fairness I can't find anything that explicitly states that B2B overrides a Zero-Vis zone but that is the accepted intention as far as I'm aware.
Being in base to base contact with an enemy puts you in the engaged state, which changes your LoF to 360 degree base contact. You aren't drawing LoF through the smoke because when the bases touch there is no room for smoke in between.
I think there might be something between ssl1/2 and engage+cc attack into a smoke. ssl allows to shoot back if attacked, so it should allow a BS ARO even if the attack is a melee one, provided the opponent effectively moved during this order. Tell me if i'm wrong.
This might do it if you really want to prove it. Once you move into B2B with an enemy you are classed as Engaged. Troopers in the Engaged state are considered to be in Close Combat. http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Interacting_with_a_Close_Combat Any troop in base to base contact with an enemy engaged in Close Combat can only declare CC Attack, Dodge, or other skills usable in Close Combat. That states that Dodge is a valid skill in CC.
Exactly. Engaged in CC allows you to draw 360˚ LoF to those in base to base. That isn't the same as giving you LoF. ZVZ rules explicitly state you can't draw LoF. Because Engaged describes CC as drawing LoF, I have to conclude Smoke prevents that. That's simply an assumption on your part.
But that is only saying Dodge is a valid declaration. Valid in normal circumstances. Smoke/ZVZ changes the circumstances. Being able to declare Dodge in CC isn't the same as being a legal declaration.
Exactly. LoF isn't a requirement to make a CC attack but it is for Dodge. Maybe there's a reason for this? EDIT: In other words, I can Smoke you, then make a CC attack, and you can't Dodge. Seems useful and reasonable to me.
Smoke, as a Zero Viz Zone, does not apply to skills that are declared in base to base contact. Inside a Zero Visibility Zone, troopers can only declare Skills that do not require LoF or that require them to be in base to base contact with their target.
I think Ginrei's point is that the Dodge skill states it requires LoF and it does not require base to base contact (unlike CC attack) thus it does not fulfil those requirements. It's not the way I've ever seen it played but I haven't found anything that explicitly disproves it. Hardly a new occurrence for Infinity!
That's not correct. Inside a Zero Visibility Zone: troopers can only declare Skills that do not require LoF Dodge requires LoF so cannot be declared. or that require them to be in base to base contact with their target. Dodge does not require base to base to be used. It requires LoF and can be used in base to base. That's completely different to a CC Attack which only requires base to base. Dodge fulfills none of those requirements so can't be used. It can only be used within Smoke, just like a BS Attack, in response to a BS Attack. The rules seem quite clear to me.
You should probably take this a bit more at face value. Unless you mean that a model that's not Engaged would be able to Dodge in response to enemy movement regardless of intervening ZVZs. I think Ginrei's interpretation is entirely correct and I've argued this before without major opposition. Touching a ZVZ when engaged means you can't draw LOF to opponents and opponents can't draw LOF to you, meaning skills need to either not require LOF (Change Facing or CC Attack) or they need to trigger a condition where LOF can be ignored (having sixth sense and being BS Attacked through the ZVZ). On the simple basis that Dodge is essentially the only skill that's affected and that you have access to Change Facing, I am not certain whether this is an oversight or that it's an oversight that even needs fixing. -- I can see how this becomes a clash of specificity where it's a question of whether the general LOF rules for the case of CC are more specific than the Zero Visibility Rules. It's also annoying that the rules regarding drawing LOF in 360 is not included in the Engaged state, but the rule for only being able to draw LOF to melee base to base is.
Then it's probably an oversight they need to fix if they think Engaged should be able to Dodge while in ZVZ.