Hi everyone. Tired of being against the odds playing Caledonia even in Satelites (no one forces me to, but you know, it's too epic) I purchased the all-mighty Morat. I know the Yaogat Sniper is God tier (don't know if 2 of them), and read a lot. Have several questions thought. I understand Caledonia and Morat have the same spirit (attack and not AROing, at least I play scots in that way), so i'll try to play it in the same way. It's the first time I have acces to a nice hacker (Isobel...) the Dartock, I'll do a haris with one Suryat + tinbot, hmg or hrl, and another troop. Is it worth to play 2 dartocks in the same haris? Just to shot 4 pitchers in enemies half table (or even close enough to their DZ to hack or ARO). Gakis or Pretas? In a haris, they are 9 more points that you can spend in another troop...but have chains so at some point, you can cover properly your DZ or just break the haris in the centre of the table and just go in. And the last question, is Kornak 99% of games your LT? Here's one list I made fast, for all-purpose (no, I don't remember how to post it ) And yes, I must play one T2 troop (Kyostok or Tyrok or unluckily both) because in my 'personal lore' morats and scots are allies being against the Human Sphere States and they just stopped at Dawn, and they let the monkeys some ammo. Sorry for the lore and thank you!
Hello, I play quite a lot against Morats, so here’s my insight. Yaogat sniper is extremely good indeed. About not AROing, I kinda disagree. A HRL Suryat in a pure fireteam core is probably one of the best ARO units in the game. - it has MSV, so immune to smoke trick - it has AP immune, which means that he will be extremely sturdy with its almost guaranteed 7 ARM value (4 ARM + cover) - it has super high BS, as you’ll hit most likely on 16: 13+3 core +3 range -3 cover. - it has veteran so immune to isolation from hackers - it has 6 bts and a Tinbot, so overall pretty well protected against hackers. - only for 36 points For me it’s a borderline broken unit. If you play against PanO for instance, they will have a LOT of troubles bringing it down. Just make sure the core is well covered and well protected. Core Morat fireteam with the Suryat HRL. More kind of defensive. The rest of the list will be made to be super agressive. It’s not like MAF doesn’t have a super high mobility with exceptional warbands / close range units. One Harris with a Dartok One Gaki fireteam Harris. Not only it provides with a great pool of orders while being super cheap, but this thing can alpha strike your opponent if she or he didn’t setup a proper layered defense. Smoke trick. Send Gakis in suicide mission. They’ll shine even more on missions with huge exclusion zones / very narrow DZ Yes. But Suryat 2 Lt orders and a linked Raktorak can have their reason to exist too if you want to go super agressive. But Kornak is certainly an exceptional LT. Did a list in 2mns: gloFbW9yYXQAgSwCAQoBghIBBAACgewBCAADgewBAgAEhiQBAQAFggYBAwAGghYBAwAHhiQBAQAIghgBAQAJghQBAQAKghQBAQACBQGCEwECAAKB+QEBAAOB+QEBAASB+AEFAAWB+AEFAA== Defensive core HRL Suryat, with strong offensive capabilities thanks to the Yaogat and HMG vanguard. Dartok pitcher. Offensive Harris with Karnak, Anyat, and Dartok. 2 Ikadrons that can form a great repeater network for your Dartoks (and their pitchers), while being incredible ARO units. Offesnive Gaki Harris And two Daturazi to ambush anyone too fool to expand too much. The pure core is one of the greatest strength imho of MAF. Turning it into an offensive one will put it at risk of losing your +2 BS, and you’ll lose your capability to punish anyone fool enough to fire directly at you. Without the +2BS, suddenly others will potentially start shooting better than you do, and everything will start falling apart. I strongly recommend to keep your core behind.
I've been playing around with a few lists. It is very mission dependant but you could try these as they are similar to yours: Morat Aggression Forces ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 9 KORNAK (Lieutenant [+1 Order], Strategos L1) Mk12, Light Flamethrower / Heavy Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 45) YAOGAT MULTI Sniper Rifle(+1B) / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 35) SURYAT (Multispectral Visor L1) Heavy Rocket Launcher ( | TinBot: Firewall [-3]) / MULTI Pistol(+1B), CC Weapon. (1.5 | 36) DARTOK (Hacker) Submachine Gun, Pitcher / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 21) MORAT VANGUARD (Paramedic) Combi Rifle ( | MediKit) / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 16) KAITOK (Multispectral Visor L1) Feuerbach ( ) / Heavy Pistol(+1B), CC Weapon. (1.5 | 36) RINDAK FTO (Paramedic) Submachine Gun, Flash Pulse(+1B) / Heavy Pistol, PARA CC Weapon. (0 | 27) DARTOK (Hacker) Submachine Gun, Pitcher / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 21) IKADRON (Baggage, Repeater) Light Flamethrower(+1B), Flash Pulse / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 9) GROUP 2 3 2 5 DĀTURAZI Chain Rifle(+1B), Grenades, Smoke Grenades / Heavy Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 14) OZNAT FTO Vulkan Shotgun, Smoke Grenades / Heavy Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 18) GAKI AP CC Weapon. (0 | 4) GAKI AP CC Weapon. (0 | 4) DĀTURAZI Chain Rifle(+1B), Grenades, Smoke Grenades / Heavy Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 14) 5.5 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army Morat Aggression Forces ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 9 KORNAK (Lieutenant [+1 Order], Strategos L1) Mk12, Light Flamethrower / Heavy Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 45) SURYAT (Multispectral Visor L1) Heavy Rocket Launcher ( | TinBot: Firewall [-3]) / MULTI Pistol(+1B), CC Weapon. (1.5 | 36) YAOGAT MULTI Sniper Rifle(+1B) / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 35) DARTOK (Hacker) Submachine Gun, Pitcher / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 21) MORAT VANGUARD (Paramedic) Combi Rifle ( | MediKit) / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 16) KAITOK Chain Rifle(+2B), Flammenspeer / Heavy Pistol(+1B), CC Weapon. (0 | 22) DARTOK (Hacker) Submachine Gun, Pitcher / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 21) ANYAT K1 Combi Rifle, Chain-colt, Smoke Grenades, E/M Grenades / CC Weapon, Heavy Pistol. (0 | 24) R-DRONE Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7) GROUP 2 3 2 3 RASYAT Spitfire, D-Charges, Eclipse Grenades / Heavy Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (1.5 | 37) IKADRON (Baggage, Repeater) Light Flamethrower(+1B), Flash Pulse / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 9) OZNAT FTO Combi Rifle, Smoke Grenade Launcher / Shock CC Weapon, Heavy Pistol. (0 | 16) PRETA Chain Rifle / AP CC Weapon. (0 | 7) GAKI AP CC Weapon. (0 | 4) 5.5 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army
In answer to your questions: - Yaogat sniper is a great active piece. I find the Suryat HRL is a better ARO piece. Always have a paramedic around. - Two dartoks can work. I've tended to split them as you usually need one to be forward for classifieds while your core (with Tinbots) anchors. You can rely on pitchers to get firewall protection. The second list above works on a forward haris of the Kaitok/Dartok/Anyat but you should be open minded to mixing and matching your core/haris based on mission/opponent. - gaki/preta is personal choice. Sometimes the points are so tight that you have to drop to gaki. For me they are an early order battery and counter attack piece. There are plenty of template weapons in Morats. You probably want to get a box of the new daturazi as a priority purchase. - Kornak is my LT in 99% of missions. You might make a case for the Suryat HMG +1 LT order if you also bring an NCO unit. The main one playable one IMO is the Raicho which does overlap with the Suryat HMG. - Unfortunately the T2 units are a challenge to use. I haven't had success with them but if I had to take one I'd try the Tyrok with Skurgot. The Kyosot wants to be good but is outclassed by the Kaitok CR IMO.
Thanks guys! I'll definetly try the HRL Suryat in the core , then the kaitok CR in the haris, don't know yet if I'll play two dartoks (depends on the rival) but makes sense to split them at least. Maybe the haris has to be Kaitok, Kyosot and Anyat/Dartok will see
I'm gonna play devil's advocate and say Kornak isn't that great. 45 points is the same cost as a Suryat with lt2 and HMG. Kornak has better leadership skills and better CC and slightly better BS. The Suryat, has hacker defense, way better survivability and a much better gun. It's not that simple a change. Sometimes a lieutenant that has actual armor and 2 real wounds is better. I myself am a big fan of a strong, expensive core fireteam backed up by two haris of Oznat+Pretas. fast moving, accurate smoke throwers who can either suicide themselves or wreck face in CC will solve a lot of problems through judicious application of brute force. Also, the Rindak is the shit. I don't know you, but my meta has a LOT of camo, so having a dude that can throw a great big middle finger to camo tokens then pulverize them with your choice of autoshotty, smg or dual multirifle is very very good. I've even used the most expensive version of him as an active turn killer and he wrecked shop against a vanilla ariadna list running 15 camo tokens.
Second this, I always struggle to justify Kornak over the Suryat Lt. They're so similar, but the HMG is just so much better than the mk12 and +1BS. +1ARM and AP immunity is far more often relevant than Kornaks CC stats for survivability, and the tinbot makes the suryat (and his fireteam) much better against hacking, while as a trade-off the suryat is only slightly worse against non-hacking BTS attacks. Strategos is fine, but I'd much rather be forced to take a Raktorak (who I like to have anyway for the number 2) than lose out on burst5 for my main active shooter. Also, in general morats have such good value in their midrange models - the 20-30 cost stuff. Rindaks, dartoks and the chain rifle kaitok profiles in particular are all wildly undercosted and hard not to take. Dartoks are just decent fair costed hackers at 21 points without the upgrade. Becoming their own defensive killer hacker on the same profile is huge value. For the Kaitoks 2W, 5ARM is a tonne of work for your opponent to remove for only 22 points, and then they have great template forking options to boot. I'd almost always squeeze in 3 for any mission with zones or a room to defend. The Rindak FTO is fairly costed for its bulk and shooting ability, but it also gets to be the crème de la crème of paramedics with that burst 3 medikit. Synergises really well with the morat fireteam promiscuity as well, if you lose a fireteam near an important objective your invincible haris Rindak can run in, tank a bunch of shots, medikit everyone and one command token later you've got yourself a new core I take the 2 ikadrons and 1 r-drone in every list as well. If I try to make a list without them, they always end up back in after some editing. They're just such good cheerleaders, and the flamethrowers + repeater + high BTS on ikadrons makes them scarier DZ guards than they have any right to be for such cheap orders
If you want to really pump your orders in combat group 1 for an alpha strike. Say with a Rasyat or TAG. Then Kornak can do that. Anyone with NCO can use the Suryats L+1 orders, regardless if they're in the same group. I rarely run Kornak fwiw (for much the same reasons as have been stated already).
It's interesting, we see it quite differently based on the value placed on contribution. I don't disagree with your points but have a different perspective. To me Kornak is 45pts for three regular orders and an extremely competent turn 2/3 gunfighter once engagement ranges close. I don't really want to risk my LT in active turn longer ranged gunfights, typically because the LT order can't be used in the link but also because I don't want to risk my LT early (though I appreciate that Morats largely ignore LoL). He's also more effective at defending the natural LT predator of CC, bringing high CC and a template weapon. The link team that supports Kornak brings a Suryat HRL for ARO plus tinbot defense while the Yaogat MSR (under smoke) is the active turn killer. I feel both of those two pieces, in combination, outperform the Suryat HMG. In essence, the link composition becomes an important factor in assessing performance - but that becomes very subjective! There's certainly a case for the Suryat HMG, it's a strong piece. However I feel it does tend to force your list design towards the NCO choices. A raktorak could be another Dartok for hacking saturation! I recommend anyone test a few list builds and find what works for them.
I love the Rindak but have had difficulty defending him once he's pushed up the table. He doesn't love eating templates when pushing up which makes his close range weapons a challenge. He certainly has a role in a forward team and can do a ton of work standing up your armour units (Suryat/Kaitok). I haven't tried the multirifle profile yet, looks strong but very expensive!
