Given the points, I'd consider a Ghilim Fireteam (with Leila as #5) as your secondary attack option. With a HMG, you have enough firepower to take on almost anything (you may drop in a Panzerfaust for those hard targets. A Missile Launcher would be better, but would also kill your SWC budget). With Leila, you have a Hacker on your roster, which allows you to field REMs. Kameels and a Fanous are then available as cheap Orders. Of course, having a Ragik or a Farzan (preferably the Minelayer loadout) wouldn't hurt, either. But a well-equipped Fireteam... that's the way, IMO. Still, we're talking about more than 100 or 120pts here. Hassassin Bahram ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 7 1 1 GHULAM HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 20) GHULAM Lieutenant Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) GHULAM Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) GHULAM Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) LEILA SHARIF Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Shock Marksman Rifle, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20) FIDAY Rifle + Light Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW, Knife. (0 | 31) FANOUS REMOTE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) 1 SWC | 120 Points Open in Infinity Army However, at 150pts... Hassassin Bahram ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 9 GHULAM HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 20) GHULAM Lieutenant Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) GHULAM Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) GHULAM Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) LEILA SHARIF Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Shock Marksman Rifle, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20) FIDAY Rifle + Light Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW, Knife. (0 | 31) FANOUS REMOTE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) FARZAN (Minelayer) Boarding Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23) KAMEEL (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) 1 SWC | 146 Points Open in Infinity Army or Hassassin Bahram ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 9 GHULAM HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 20) GHULAM Lieutenant Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) GHULAM Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) GHULAM Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) LEILA SHARIF Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Shock Marksman Rifle, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20) FIDAY Rifle + Light Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW, Knife. (0 | 31) FANOUS REMOTE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) KAMEEL (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) RAGIK Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 26) 1 SWC | 149 Points Open in Infinity Army
Good point. I don't know that either, OTOH a Kameel or Fanous is little more than a Regular order for 8pts here. Not a TR HMG or SML... It is worth keeping in mind that in Bahram, if you happen to have a Hacker on your roster, you can list 2 Kameels & 1 Fanous: 3 Regular Orders for mere 24pts. There are moments where this is likely to make a difference. Of course, that's not as far as one could get that in QK, with 2 Kameels & 3 Fanous - 40pts for 5 Regular Orders is a really respectable Order battery (downside - it doesn't do much more than that - Fanous REM can be used for Flashpulse ARO, and that's basically it), and takes 5 spaces in your list. But there are days when I do use it.
If that hacker is the Barid KHD (amazing), you get 4 orders for 40 points, and a deadly specialist to boot.
Certainly. But I was basing it on the assumption there already is a hacker in the list (we've started from the concept of a Ghulam Fireteam including Laila). I must admit, I have to start using Killer Barids as Specialists - my Barid is usually a basic Hacker doing the basic Hacker's utility job - Killer Hacker can't do this - and there's little point in hunting enemy Hackers: they're hard to get, if present at all in my meta. And there are usually meny other targets that need to be neutralised (and thus require Orders to be poured into them).
I know you were. I'm agreeing with you, but wanted to point out the KHD. So many miss this guy. Leila is great, especially to fill out that team, but the KHD with lightning is so much fun. The Lt Barid is awesome too. And remember, you don't need to hunt anyone. You have cybermask. This means you can send the Barid to cap objectives. You can't mask with Leila unless she leaves her team. Both options are awesome. I use both depending on the mission, and I've ran both in the same list before. For one point more than Leila, (and some SWC), you get a potential Lt. and an incredibly reliable way to buff your HI. (I love Hassassin HI). He can also shut down HI with his high WIP. All-in-all, I find info war very fun and always run hackers, with the Barids being my favorite. (BUT I still love and use Leila often).
As much as I enjoy them in yu jing, I haven't picked up a set of remotes for Haqq because I really don't like the look of them. I may have to suck it up and get over it, but with the generous proxy rules I may be able to get away using the basic rems of another faction that I like the look of better. We'll see. For the time being, though I don't any. I appreciate all the spitballing, though. So the next round of pairings is up. It looks like I'll be up against vanilla Aleph. I can imagine I'll be looking at some combination of netrods, myrmidons, dakini,and a heavy hitter of some sort. I think sticking with the Ghulam core is still the way to go. Mutts will be good, especially if he goes for some sort of gimmicky 5-6 order Achilles list, because with no hacking I'm not sure how else to counter Achilles at this points level besides jammers/e marats. Even if Achilles doesn't show up, there's still plenty of room for other heavy hitting myrm characters. Would it be worth it, do you think, to bring a lone Govad just case? Bahram has no fire outside of rockets.
I know others love the Govads, but I do not. I think your points are better spent elsewhere. Every time. If I'm taking expensive infantry like that, I'd rather grab Muyibs or a bunch of cheaper orders.
And I often do use Barid Hacker Lt for his utility value. Though this does more often include buffing REMs (a Rafiq scout with active Assisted Fire makes for a pretty nice attack REM). Buffing HI though... the only buff for HI I can see (and by all means, please do correct me if I'm wrong!) is Fairy Dust. Which I find of limited appeal in case of the Asawira, due to their high BTS - and I haven't yet been in a situation when my Ayyar was risking being hacked (as I said, in my meta hackers aren't that very common). Apart form that, I think both HB and QK don't do that great when it comes to setting up Repeater networks. And in most cases, well, you need hacking ZoC to make it effective. So that's about it when it comes to stopping enemy HI. I simply do not count for that. Not that this is going to stop my hand when an opportunity arises ;) Killer Hacker Barid, you have a good point there - Cybermask Specialist can get around pretty easily. Well, it took me a few years to warm up to the cyberturkeys (once you see them next ot your infantrymen, it becomes obvious they are far too big to be cyberchickens! ;)). I used scratchbuildt REMs in the meantime... If you have YJ REMs, go for it and do proxy Haqq REMs with these! Should aynone start asking stupid questions - the Hassassins are using a set of YJ REMs on this mission for disinformation purposes. Ever heard about "false flag operations", mate? Well, make sure the Big Mr A has to come to you on your terms. And do zero in your Ghulam HMG off a good distance. ODD or not, ARM 6 or not, if you throw enough Orders worth of HMG fire at him, you'll eventually take him down. I mean: a Ghulam HMG in a Fireteam has base BS of 11, +3 in optimum range, +3 for a 5-man Fireteam, making for a total of 17. Achilles can take -6 of it if in the ODD variant, -3 if Hoplite variant, and another -3 if he manages to find Cover. So you're going to hit him on 8-or-less in a worst-case-scenario (if he's too close for the HMG to be effective, switch to Rifles, and even Shotguns if needed be). And just hose him down with bullets untill he falls dead. Other tricks you might find useful dealing with Steel Phalanx: - kill his Orders. Fiday's Mines are going to be pretty decent for that. His guns and blades - you need to be careful with target choices. If it has ODD, shooting it is not really an option. If there are Martial Arts on the target, CC is not really an option. Achilles or not, he can't do much without Orders. - give Achilles a sacrifical lamb to chew on. Once he kills, he becomes Impetous, and being Impetous he can't claim Cover. - Ghazi - if they get close enough - are going to be a true headache. I wouldn't put too much hope into a lone Govad sniper, MSV or not. He's too easy to neutralize - and too obvious as a hard counter to the ODD. .
No! Alas, I disagree. Fanous, Rafiq, and Pitchers on Barids make for an excellent mobile network. Not to mention deployables from Ghulam and a potential KHD with SSL2. I love it. Oh, and QK get the Iguana, which has a repeater in it! So fun!
Iguana, true. Fanous and Rafiq, not that much, IMO. They are too vulnerable to enemy counterhacking, and also to simply being shot enroute. If they are where you need them anyway - sure, they get the job done. As for Pitchers... I d ouse them occasionally, but this is as I said - occasional. ...might have to do with the fact that primary HI user here was, for quite a while, a number of MO armies, and their HI tend to have MArts, i.e. Stealth, which makes ARO hacking them rather problematic. ...I guess we've hijacked the thread a bit by now...
MA can be tricky, but that's where the Taureg and Hawwa' shine. Pitchers are way cool. Lob them over and shut down a whole link. I've done it a ridiculous amount of times with my Barid. I use fanous to create a hacking zone as needed, in the moment. Rafiq can do the same while also being a total killer (when buffed by the Barid). Kameel can sit in a ZoC with baggage and a repeater or protect your corners against a wandering KHD. A lot of times I'll have two KHD in my list because they are so cheap. (Leila + Barid = 36 points, filling a link and granting the previously mentioned cybermask). This also means any enemy trying to hack your repeater is gonna get fried by WIP 14 ARO. oops. I like this list:
Maybe a little, but the whole point is to learn how to use Hassassins from the ground up, so, at least from my perspective, the chatter is welcome!
If you haven't already, take a gander at this thread. It is pure gold for running an Asawira Haris with your HB.
Ok, so match is tonight. I'm bouncing between 3 lists: Spoiler: total reaction Hassassin Bahram ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 6 3 3 GHULAM Lieutenant Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) GHULAM Doctor Plus (MediKit) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16) GHULAM HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 20) GHULAM Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) LEILA SHARIF Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Shock Marksman Rifle, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20) SHIHAB REMOTE HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 25) MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) 2 SWC | 120 Points Open in Infinity Army Spoiler: Lotsa Bodies Hassassin Bahram ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 5 5 4 GHULAM Lieutenant Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) GHULAM Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) GHULAM HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 20) GHULAM Doctor Plus (MediKit) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16) FIDAY Rifle + Light Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW, Knife. (0 | 31) MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) DAYLAMI (CH: Limited Camouflage, Inferior Infiltration) Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 8) 1.5 SWC | 119 Points Open in Infinity Army Spoiler: Ghluam+farzan Hassassin Bahram ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 6 3 3 GHULAM Lieutenant Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) GHULAM HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 20) GHULAM Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 13) GHULAM Doctor Plus (MediKit) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16) LEILA SHARIF Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Shock Marksman Rifle, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20) FARZAN (Minelayer) Boarding Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23) MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) 2 SWC | 119 Points Open in Infinity Army For this last one I'm still considering dumping the farzan and a mutt for a fiday.
Round 2 completed. Opponent tabled, only casualty was a Mutt. Spoiler: Opponent List ALEPH ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 6 ATALANTA MULTI Sniper Rifle + TinBot E (Spotter) / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 39) AGÊMA Marksman (X Visor) Mk12 / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 29) MYRMIDON Chain Rifle, Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 16) MYRMIDON Chain Rifle, Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 16) MYRMIDON Chain Rifle, Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 16) NETROD . (0 | 4) 2 SWC | 120 Points Open in Infinity Army Spoiler: My List Wiz Escalation 2 ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 6 2 2 GHULAM Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) GHULAM Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) GHULAM HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 20) GHULAM Lieutenant Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) FIDAY Rifle + Light Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW, Knife. (0 | 31) FARZAN (Minelayer) Boarding Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23) MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) 1 SWC | 120 Points Open in Infinity Army My opponent is very new to the game and is building lists around models he thinks look cool or concepts he wants to explore (in this case smoke MSV2), and I applaud that, and I think he learned some stuff in the match. Unfortunately, his list wasn't the most optimal for the task at hand and combined with inexperience that led to some holes I could exploit. Mutts: put in some work this game. Killed a netrod, a myrmidon, and Atalanta. Though it was all through aggressive use and not via lucky reaction or opponent going out of their way to kill them. Still, the value of the unit is easily apparent. Farzan: served as intimidating midfield roadblock but didn't activate. Ghulams; Killed and agema and then did some impressive cheerleading. Fiday: What can I say? An absolutely punishing profile for opponents not prepared to deal with it. Killed off a pair of clumped Myrmidons with a two pronged aggressive mine and shotgun strategy. I suspect at the points totals go up, he'll be harder to use in such a definitively crippling fashion. I want to make sure I'm playing this right, so quick question about the mine: Opponent's model is in range of a mine and gets shot at. If he responds by shooting, it's FtF with my model and he just eats the mine. If he dodges, it's FtF with my shot and regardless of that outcome, as long as he succeeds at his check -3 the mine is dodged. Is that right?
If you were close enough he could have used engage instead dodge to close the gap. Im not sure b2b with a myr is safe for anyone to be
Great job! That is true, as kills have a bit less of an importance, but you can still take out key pieces. You'll be getting better with him each game, while your opponent should be getting better with facing them each game, so it should balance out. In larger point games, with more models on the table, their rolls might change from aggressive attack pieces to mine laying area deniers that soak up too many orders to deal with. Sometimes, rather than engaging a link team or ARO piece, you'll just be throwing smoke, as a safer alternative as your pieces move up. I really like pairing him with a Ragik. Some players like to spread their units out in response to a shotgun/mine Fiday, so then your spitfire Ragik can come in and start picking people off one or two at a time.
Time for Round 3. Up against Aleph again, this time at 150 with Lts. This opponent has a bit more experience then my last so I think I can expect some expanded tactics out of them. As I've been playing around with lists, I've noticed that things really start to open up for Bahram around 150. The Ghulam core has been serving me well thus far, so I'm still inclined to keep it and finally add Leila to get the 5 man bonus. And the Fiday is a delight to use so I'd love to keep him around as well. So starting with this: Hassassin Bahram ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 6 GHULAM Lieutenant Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) GHULAM Doctor Plus (MediKit) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16) GHULAM HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 20) GHULAM Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) LEILA SHARIF Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Shock Marksman Rifle, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20) FIDAY Rifle + Light Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW, Knife. (0 | 31) 1 SWC | 111 Points Open in Infinity Army Open in Infinity Army Leave me with 39 points to run with. I'd really like to bring some mutts to help with ODD/TO. As much as i'd like to take the Ayyar for a spin, at this point range and against this foe I don't think he's the best fit. So for another attack piece i'm looking at farzan w/mines, ragik, or lasiq. The lasiq seems the weakest of the three against Aleph. They're an average gun fighter with no particular advantage with dealing with TO and they're slow. Farzan can start up the table and has mines. Ragik can exploit rear arcs and punish deployment, but it's and order that starting off the table. I know @Errhile recommended some 8 pt remotes to boost regular orders, but i'm worried that putting 16 points into profiles that can't kill may be a hindrance at this level, though I can see the appeal in fueling a fiday/ragik one two punch.
