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Zuyong cost in N4

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by Triumph, Sep 18, 2020.

  1. Alphz

    Alphz Kuang Shi Vet. Retired.

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    Kind of relies on ignoring certain information, and then taking in information that is likely sketch.

    It's not nothing, but it's not really something either.
     
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  2. Fed4ykin

    Fed4ykin Well-Known Member

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    Domaru always had stealth because it belongs to MA.
     
  3. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Yes I know. But now they had the opportunity to take it away and didn't. N3 they didn't have a choice because it was nested with MA.

    It's something to some people. I think if people didn't care, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
     
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  4. Fed4ykin

    Fed4ykin Well-Known Member

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    Why would you take stealth away its the only real defense against hacking domarus or some HI have. Because they can't take tinbots. And fairy dust is now just on the Evodevice.
    Domarus were never close to being broken so let them and other MA HI (crane, hsien profit from it too) have stealth. It's always been this way.
     
  5. Aldo

    Aldo Spare 15

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    Well, only since Stealth was introduced in N3*
    So not always

    *technically MA4 in N2 had a similar effect, I had to tell you so people wouldnt tell me
     
  6. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Just for the record as I will need this later when someone eventually misquotes me out of context on complaints about the Zuyong.

    • 26pts feels reasonable. They picked up Number 2, and got Haris for free both in points and SWC, combined with the late upgrade to 6-2 MOV value from the Code 1 4-4 I think puts them about where they should be for the cost.
    • The thread's comparison to Domaru was with the Frenzy discount missing from the picture. The way CB uses Frenzy solely as a points cheat mechanic is still as fucking retarded as ever, but it's not relevant here.
     
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  7. Alphz

    Alphz Kuang Shi Vet. Retired.

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    I'm glad they got 6-2. I'm perplexed the likes of hulang and crane ended up with 4-4.

    Frenzy is bullshit. There's still hope they change how it interacts with link teams
     
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  8. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    The Hulang is a little annoying, on the other hand it's keeping his cost down I assume so there's that. The Crane is less problematic I think because his link buddies are 4-4 CGs (or Wu Ming) so he doesn't benefit from 6-2 as much, and he's not a Vanilla solo operator really.
     
  9. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    I hope this gets seen to.

    Is there any evidence that 6-2 increases cost compared to 4-4?
     
  10. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    I have nothing concrete, I'm just giving CB the benefit of the doubt that they are applying an upgrade cost to it because it would be moronic not to. Front loaded MOV stats are superior in every single facet of the game to balanced MOV stats, to not reflect this in points value would be stupid.
     
  11. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    I think Zuyong are about the right price. It's certain HI in other factions I think got too cheap.
     
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  12. Janzerker

    Janzerker Invincible Angry

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    Allow me to disagree. The obvious comparison is with Orcs (who also get Haris). Zuyong got 1 point drop while gaining Number 2. Meanwhile, Orcs got a 7 points drop. An Orc costs only 3 points more than a Zuyong while getting +1BS, + 1 ARM, +2PH, -1WIP . I can get BS and ARM seem to have dropped points in this edition, but PH is a costly and very important attribute. +2 PH makes the difference in N4. I don't think a breaker pistol (+1B) and dodge(1") make up for the difference in cost.
     
  13. Benkei

    Benkei Well-Known Member

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    Breaker Pistol, Dodge, +2 CC and Number 2
     
  14. Janzerker

    Janzerker Invincible Angry

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    Because YJ is supposed to pay for CC everybody else is getting for free? Moderators got +5 CC and +1WIP for no additional cost.

    The point is in N3 an Orc was 9 pts more expensive than a Zuyong. In N4 Orc dropped 7 points, and, while I understand ARM and BS seem to have dropped cost in N4, you would expect a drop around 4-5 points for the Zuyong accordingly. Add Number 2 (+1pt) then a Zuyong should be 3-4 points cheaper than before.

    Unless you are telling me Zuyong didn't pay for dual breaker pistols and kinematica 1 in N3.
     
  15. Benkei

    Benkei Well-Known Member

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    I'm only saying if you compare the two the points check out, I don't care how many each of them dropped in the edition change, maybe (probably) ORCs were overcosted ?
     
  16. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    ARM 4 was stupidly expensive in N3
    As far as I have been able to reverse engineer, Kinematica was free for all miniatures that had it and the Zuyong did indeed pay as much for their dual Breakers as other units payed for their single regular pistol
     
  17. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    I'm not 100% on the pistols but apparently Kinematica was free. Regardless, it's a much bigger deal than it was in N3. In N3 Kimematica was basically shit, wasn't worth a damn.

    Having got some games in with N4 the Dodge changes are probably the single biggest change to game play, I would go as far as saying a significant degree of skill ceiling that will separate players in quality will be those who understand how to get the maximum value out of abusing dodge for all they're worth. Getting those extra inches in on them is really good.
     
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