ZoC ARO questions

Discussion in '[Archived]: N3 Rules' started by Dr. Nik, Mar 8, 2019.

  1. Dr. Nik

    Dr. Nik Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    Hey!

    So we have multiple ARO's working in ZoC and a few shenanigans like Jammer or Sixth Sense.

    What we know from FAQ:

    Q: In the reactive turn, when can you measure the Zone of Control?
    A: Following the steps of the Order Expenditure Sequence: you declare a ZoC ARO, and in the step of resolution, is when the players take measurements. So, is troop is in the ZoC, resolve his ARO, but if not, the ARO is lost.

    So the situation is:
    Active enemy trooper moves for first skill in 8,5 inches (out of ZoC and not in LOS) from your trooper with Jammer.
    You decide that the trooper is in your ZoC and declare Jammer.
    Active enemy trooper moves further for the second skill and is 4,5 inches (in your ZoC) from your trooper at the end of the order.
    As by the FAQ you measure your ZoC at the resolution step.

    So can you use Jammer in this situation or the ARO is lost because it wasn't a legal declaration?

    Second situation is:
    Active enemy trooper moves for first skill in 8,5 inches (out of ZoC and not in LOS) from your trooper with Sixth Sense.
    You decide that the trooper is in your ZoC and declare that you delay your ARO for Sixth Sense.
    Active enemy trooper moves further for the second skill and is 4,5 inches (in your ZoC and in LOS) from your trooper at the end of the order.
    As by the FAQ you measure your ZoC at the resolution step.

    So can you declare your ARO normally (shoot for example) for the second move by enemy trooper or ARO is lost because you couldn't delay it out of ZoC?

    Thanks.
     
  2. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    In both situations, I would say that due to all at once, you would not care when during the order your opponent is in range, only if.

    Thus both Jammer and Delay are valid declarations.
     
  3. tox

    tox SorriBarai
    Warcor

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    deleted

    i totally misread...
     
  4. Teslarod

    Teslarod when in doubt, Yeet

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    The essential problem here is that you declare an ARO that is not retroactively illegal but impossible (due to not getting an ARO at all).
    It's pretty much the same as declaring an BS Attack ARO obstructed by a wall with no LOF, you don't get to do that.

    The problem is that being 0.5" outside of ZOC can easily happen while declaring BS Attacks through solid walls simply doesn't occur.
    There is no clear ruling what to do when someone declares an impossible ARO (= declaring an ARO without actually getting activated).

    Note that this is different from declaring an ARO that turns out to be illegal. In those cases you are activated by ARO and perform an idle.
    If you're outside of ZOC in your example the trooper neither activates nor receives an ARO to spend against the first short Skill to begin with.
    He does activate and receives an ARO against the first short Skill.

    As far as I am aware there are two ways to handle this and none of them is official or backed by rules as far as I am aware.
    1st option: You declare one ARO, either against the first or the second Short Skill. Then you measure if you're inside ZOC. If it turns out you guessed right you get the ARO, if you declared too late or too early the ARO as illegal and turns into an Idle.

    2nd option: declare seperate AROs against the first Short skill and the second Short Skill and see which one applies.


    The first option is easier and what I've seen most people go for.
    The second one would be "correct" imho, but is really clunky to play with, so I wouldn't argue with anyone wanting to go for the first one.
    Generally speaking the game tries to avoid producing gotcha moments and the possibility baiting someone to forfeit a ZOC ARO as well as the use of Sixth Sense seems not to be in the spirit of the rules.

    In your case you would have just guessed right that you are outside of ZOC and don't get and ARO, then proceed to declare BS Attack against the second Short Skill. Sixth Sense does nothing here as there is nothing to delay.
     
  5. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Actually, it's been clarified that "the ARO is lost" should be understood as "an Idle is performed". So there's no difference between declaring an ARO that was generated but is invalid and declaring an ARO that wasn't ever generated.

    It's what allows you to (technically) declare Change Facing with a HD Trooper in your own DZ when your opponent activates a trooper in theirs (*cough* XO Hac Tao *cough*).

    I strenuously argued against this conclusion.

    I CBF finding the discussion (hungover due cold), but it exists. It may actually be a Solved answer.

    Edit: https://forum.corvusbelli.com/index.php?threads/23413/

    Last post.

    Re: the actual question. My personal opinion is that for ZOC AROs: if at resolution you determine that the Trooper was inside ZOC/Hacking Area at any point in the order the ARO is valid. Any other way ends up with people who proactively declare AROs at Step 4 (thereby limiting their options and providing their intentions to their opponent) getting screwed when it turns out their first opportunity to ARO was at Step 6. This is particularly relevant to Koalas where you could abuse any other interaction to prevent them from Boosting.
     
    #5 inane.imp, Mar 9, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2019
    Urobros likes this.
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