Yu Jing is a hot mess

Unfortunately, I largely agree here. White Banner is basically a conceptual abortion that doesn't really inspire thoughts of what it's meant to be billed as. For a sectorial I used to be extremely excited about, it is completely devoid of identity and I really have no interest in playing it as it is, regardless of how powerful it may be. I'll stick to representing White Banner by playing vanilla in the way I did before it came out.

ISS is just a straight up dumpster fire right now. It's been discussed back and forth, but as things are it'd be a fine sectorial in N3, but right now it suffers from being built around a bunch of restrictions with no real payoff.

 

If that’s really how you feel...have you considered a different army or a different game?

 

It's a valid complaint, quite honestly, and does warrant some attention. The strong visual themes that used to define the faction are still carried on older models, enough so that I grabbed a few ISS models recently, but they're in danger of dying out. The mechanical design is also a bit inconsistent with fluff, making it more tricky to assemble an army that matches the characteristics it's marketed with. Yu Jing's almost alone in experiencing this problem within Infinity; even PanO (and Sectorials) which is another of the armies CB seems to struggle while designing at least plays like it's clearly meant to, viability and fun of said play notwithstanding.

 

Agreed.

Not really, they are meant as THE armed forces of YJ. This also includes our basic line infantry, the Zhanshi. The fact that IA can play both heavy and light links is great.

I don't really agree with the statement that they were supposed to be cops, as I see them more in the lines of Gestapo: ruthless secret police with large resources.

I agree that those more "SPACE ASIA" models need more love, but I don't think that every single model has to look in a more traditional way. I love all my HI armours just the way they are.

I generally agree with you, but I don't think that it's as bad as you seem to see it. ISS needs an N4 update and I wouldn't mind a slight redesign of WB, but otherwise I think that we are just fine.

 

The IA is actually a separate entity from the Banner Armies where the Zhanshi serve in fluff. They're similar in that they're YJ's ground forces, but feature completely different organisation, equipment, logistics and doctrine. Think of it like the relationship between the US Army and US Marines.

 

Speaking of space Asia I'm prepared to see some South East Asia themes, or if lucky; moar Jujaks plz!

 

I stand corrected!

 

So let me get this out of the way, gameplay-wise WB is actually pretty good. It achieves this however with just a fraction of its’ units. Also it is apparently the King of Hacking in YJ, which is cool, but I don’t think anyone expected that.

Now the negatives, there is a lot of chaff in WB:

• A supreme over-reliance on an IA unit, the Shang Ji. Now he is a beast, but it is weird to share a pretty much identical Fireteam to IA.
• Tian Gou are in a pretty sad state
  
• Jujaks need something to differentiate themselves other than just being a Shang-Jis escort (Continuous Damage on BS attacks would be awesome).
• Kunai just seem weak in a Sectorial with a lot of Individual ARO units already.
• Dao Fei seem a little out of place in this edition. Not bad in any way mind you, just not as scary.
• Limited Zhanshi AVA is funny, but with Shang-Jis being in the Zhanshi links in N4, I don’t think this is really an issue.
• The Character bloat in WB is the biggest issue in my opinion. Oktavia and Qiang Gao are near useless slots occupying our Sectorial charts and better used as proxies for Zhanshi ML Winterized and Shang-Jisus.
  
• Next issue with chars is Lei Gong, Mehmut, and Liang Kai. Two of these are actually pretty good, but like Triumph stated, they are shared characters and don’t feel very unique.
• Our last and only unique char: Jing Qo is pretty bloated and is in a weird spot with awkward linkability. I don’t think she is necessarily bad, but suffers from being an expensive non-camo state skirmisher in a faction with really good camo skirmishers.

Personally I believe that Starmada, WB, Sval and Kosmoflot seem pretty lacking when compared to CJC/HB.

I also find it so strange that WhiteCo seems like a more fully fledged sectorial than Sval/WB.

 

I agree with the lack of focus in the sectorial design. ISS has been left behind, but I do expect them to receive a MO-style revamp at some point. IA seems to be in a good spot after N4, but the LI core being the "optimal" build does undermine their theme. WB I feel is lacking a strong thematic direction and I never even bothered to engage with it for that very reason. I can play Guilang + Daofei just fine in Vanilla and there is just nothing else there to draw my attention. The Jujak could have been an incentive, but they never bothered to release the boxset and restricted them way too much in their fire team options.

That being said, I have to disagree about the visual design. Yes, the departure of JSA did leave a hole that remained to be filled, but I feel that they did succeed in that regard. You are on point when you say there are no overtly chinese/asian designs, but that's probably a matter of subtlety more than anything else. Very often YJ leans into shapes and concepts derived from animals, with the Tiger Soldier helmet, battle cat and now the Blue Wolves.

The Daoying has clear avian features in the helmet, boots and skirt (so does Lei Gong), which has been a golden thread running through YJ design for as long as I remember. Imperial agents and Shang-Ji are all avian with their back feathers and Zuyong have beak helmets.
Krit does lack the helmet, which is a disservice to the overall sculpt in my opinion, so I can see why you'd find him lacking in that regard. Same goes for Tai Sheng, unfortunately. Their armor ties them in, but it's just too bland overall.

The Mowang is more exotic and "tropical" for lack of a better term. To me, he looks like a derivation of some sort of big Monkey/Ape and is described as somewhat of a jungle guerrilla unit, which ties in nicely with regions like Vietnam and Cambodia, who had been neglected up to this point.

Hulang are a complete dumpster fire and lack the animalistic (Jackal) features they should rightfully have (just look at the Lynx for an example of how to convey that correctly - that helmet should have been in YJ).

JSA went all out with rice hat style helmets across multiple units to reinforce their theme, which is fine, but then you have things like the Daiyokai and Kuroshi Rider who feel completely exaggerated and silly as a result. YJ vs JSA is one of my most played setup in games at my place because I own both, and at this point I couldn't even imagine them belonging to the same army due to the difference in design.

 

Can't stray from the topic too much so here's my macro scale grievance; I feel that Yu Jing's selling points (CC, heavy infantry and command and control) have been the focus of improvements in N4 which has resulted in most factions gaining improvements in these areas while Yu Jing already having a high baseline finds itself without the key selling point of being "best and brightest at".
I don't mean that as "nerf <insert faction> HI", I mean that Yu Jing's HI are kind of basic and poorly optimised if it's the HI faction and the command and control abilities are sort of limited to a comparably few profiles if it's the command and control (aka order efficiency/generation) faction, while if it's meant to be combined arms, then we need a few more arms to combine (i.e. more common with units carrying weapons with multiple range bands and extra support gear).
Oh, and CC hasn't been Yu Jing's forté in a long time, so I'd wish they'd just drop the pretence.

Love the write up!

I have a problem seeing the animalistic aspects, not that this is causing issue because I would argue that CB has rather than lean into stereotypes designed a visual look that is more unique to Yu Jing. That is not to say that I don't love the mysterious braids and think more units should have them, nor that I don't think the back spikes should have been skipped on so many units, but we don't need tropes that haven't existed in reality for decades.

I'd also kind of argue that since JSA went towards a feudal fascist society, enforcing stereotypes, clothing codes, and other "unifying national" visuals to mark both society status and standing - makes dark sense.

 

I had a problem not long time ago with understanding, where is Yu Jing good.
A couple of this, a couple of that actually. Yes, for new players it is not the clear moment.
I’ve heard code one Yu Jing spotlight. “The best Heavy armor on the market” isn’t about zuyong.

Also I can’t take serious their lore. Emperor, two Dynasties Qing and Ming... and a little of equality for citizens.
Sounds funny for me. And comic.

The design of units is mostly good.
This is a faction, where miniatures looks good in 70% of cases for me.



(Added later.)
One more moment. Yu Jing lore moments are funny, but don’t make me cringe.
Not like khawarij in Haqqislam. But that’s another story of another faction.

 

I got to say, one of the main reasons for me to take the plunge and get into yu jing was the aesthetics.
There is just one design in the actual portfolio that I sincerely dislike and that's the ye Mao. That helmet looks a lot like a fly. I know what it is supposed to look like, but I just doesn't work for me.
I like the no frills looks of most of the Invincibles, and I do like thd hulang too, the skull looks a whole lot better if you file down the strange knobs.
Krit and Tai do both actually have standard zuyong helmets. They just aren't wearing those. They are fixed on their belts.

But in my opinion the coolest aesthetics is the one of their imperial service.
The agents and the su Jian are looking great. And wu ming are just oneof the most badass designs in the whole range for me. A lot better than zuyong, which still don't have a box of their own.

So I am kinda disappointed that IS at the moment just feels unfinished and lackluster to build lists with.
They need an update like MO. I mean when you compare the KOJ and a Crane how can a basic KOJ be cheaper than a crane, with such a superior Stateline.
I know comparing in a vacuum and all but come on, that's ridiculous!
But enough salt.
I will continue to collect and play yu jing because they are jack of all trades and looking fabulous.

 

Guys, ISS are in a holding spot after the N4 transition. This is pretty obvious. They'll get redone. Until then, whining is probably less useful than figuring out how to play around what's there now.

 

Not playing ISS is probably even more productive, tbfh. That's basically how ISS got a rework last time it was emergency patched.

 

Just one thing: you should be able to compare in a vacuum as CB supposedly uses a fixed formula for the cost of all units regardless of faction.

 

@Triumph

Yes, there are definitely a lot of chinese motifs left to be explored and some of your examples could be a nice basis.

I'm just worried about Wuxia deteriorating into caricatures like the Daiyokai or that PanO Space Wolf character – they already have to some extent with the Blue Wolves, which is a bit too on the nose for my taste. I prefer more abstract designs where you can clearly tell the origin, but it's still subordinate to being a plausible and functional piece of futuristic armor/gear. Domaru do that perfectly, Tanko a bit less so, but they are still fine. Tigers/Cranes/Hsien/Daoying are prime examples.

The bird example was also not meant to say that birds are particularly chinese thing, but that they took that design cue and stuck to it across several units, including some of their names. Even the Daoying is a reference to some sort of bird iirc (hawk?) and it just works perfectly as a unifying aesthetic. Braids should definitely have their comeback, anyway, because they are another distinguishing feature that unfortunately seems to be on the way out.

 

Or you could make a dedicated number of people pick ISS and just turbo-int a tournament 0 - 5

 

Wait, so you want stereotypical Asian tropes for a post-cyberpunk, socialist dictatorship's, mass-produced powered armor military?