I've just put together a couple of Yan Huo and I absolutely love the models. In game they seem to combine great armor and overwhelming vanilla firepower with lumbering slowness, so I'm not sure how well they will work. Anyway, I'm going to give them a try. Here's one of my first list ideas: The Invincibles II ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 10 3 YĀN HUǑ Lieutenant Hyper-Rapid Magnetic Cannon / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 54) YĀN HUǑ 2 Missile Launchers + TinBot C (Neurocinetics) / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 56) CELESTIAL GUARD (Kuang Shi Control Device) Combi Rifle + Light Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 13) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) MECH-ENGINEER Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) Zhanshi YĪSHĒNG Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) RUI SHI Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 20) HAC TAO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 67) GROUP 2 1 4 4 SHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 5) SHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 5) SHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 5) SHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 5) ZHANSHI Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 19) 6 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army Have you run Yan Huo? How do they work for you? What works and what doesn't? What kinds of lists work great and are there hidden synergies I'm not thinking of? I guess what I like about them coming from ISS is that the two Yan Huo combine most of the OP firepower a full Wu Ming link kicks out, but without having to buy a full link, deploy them in coherency or worry about link bonuses evaporating. They have a bit more armor but obviously they don't get SSL2, which is a drag and leaves them open to CC, flanking and surprise attack / smoke shenanigans. On the plus side I can fit a hac tao into a vanilla list which should more than make up for it. Don't just tell me I should take a Su-Jian instead of one of them... I can already see a tougher more mobile HI for around the same cost has advantages!
I would put some of those Shaolin in the main pool. Having all your irregulars in one pool makes it incredibly inflexible, and does not allow you to take advantages of openings in the enemy line.
Dammit, you're always lurking to see what lists I'm planning to run against you ;) I figured I'd just spend command tokens to convert irregular orders if I needed them - I won't need them for reforming links. The Rui Shi and Yan Huo probably want a bunch of regular orders if they're going to go on a killing spree. I'll have to experiment with different ways of running the shaolin, I'm not used to irregular warbands.
Perhaps I don't need the Hac Tao if I have two Yan Huo. I could go for a ninja & guilang forward observer instead, which would give me two scoring models up the table closer to objectives and net four more orders to spend on the shaolin if I need to. Depends a bit on what you need for the mission. The Invincibles II ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 10 4 YĀN HUǑ Lieutenant Hyper-Rapid Magnetic Cannon / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 54) YĀN HUǑ 2 Missile Launchers + TinBot C (Neurocinetics) / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 56) CELESTIAL GUARD (Kuang Shi Control Device) Combi Rifle + Light Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 13) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) Zhanshi YĪSHĒNG Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) RUI SHI Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 20) NINJA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Tactical Bow / Pistol, DA CCW, Knife. (0 | 29) GROUP 2 4 4 4 SHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 5) SHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 5) SHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 5) SHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 5) ZHANSHI Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 19) PANGGULING (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) MECH-ENGINEER Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) GŬILÁNG (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27) 6 SWC | 299 Points Open in Infinity Army Running the yan huo hrmc as LT is also brave/foolhardy. Might be worth taking a zhanshi lt or CoC.
But you will need the command tokens for Coordinated Orders. I think a much better use for them. I hate the Neurocinetics one and don't understand why anyone likes them. It gives you 2 shots in in ARO. BFD! Most of the time it's your 2 vs. 3-5 shots from the enemy because it's their turn. I'd much rather have those 2 shots in my turn against their 1 ARO shot! Maybe 2 in a link. I'd probably never use them against a TR bot. You will also find yourself never being able to go prone because you want to use their ARO! Which I already said is meh. The Mutli-HMG is not bad just because you also get EXP amo in ARO.
The Yan Huo is what it says on the tin: hang back and kill things at range. Yan Huo are mobile artillery units and they move just as fast as field artillery does today... slowly. You need to find the optimal lanes of fire for them but when you have them their it will be their lane until someone removes them. The Yan Huo can be a descent attack pieces but do to their speed it they aren't the most optimal. It's better to think of them as table control units. They can lock down full areas of a table by their presence alone. Use them to provide overwatch (like with the Neuro ML) for a push up the table. Just keep in mind their strengths and weaknesses. Yan Hou prefer to engage things at range and keep them there (they rule those long engagements). The HRMC can fight camo and TO units thanks to the amount of dice it can kick out. They will be susceptible to armor cracking camo units like any other high armored unit with no visual modifiers. Remember to give them some hacker support as well as that's a good way to shut them down without shooting at them. 1. Tougher then a TR bot. 2. Templates. 3. Psychological (2x ML at full burst in ARO can give some pause). 4. Just cause you don't like them doesn't mean they don't work. My favorite double Yan Huo list. It's a @REND special. Yu Jing ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 9 1 1 SUN TZE Lieutenant (Advanced Command) Boarding Shotgun, 2 Nanopulsers, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 60) YĀN HUǑ Hyper-Rapid Magnetic Cannon / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 54) YĀN HUǑ 2 Missile Launchers + TinBot C (Neurocinetics) / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 56) ZHANSHI Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 19) RUI SHI Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 20) MECH-ENGINEER Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) Zhanshi YĪSHĒNG Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) GŬILÁNG (Minelayer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 26) GŬILÁNG (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27) SHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 5) 6 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army Spare me the usual it's low on orders. I've been making 9 to 10 order lists work for years without any huge issues.
Yep, Sun Tze would be pretty fun with them, for sure. That's a nice little list for limited insertion.
On a different note, you could always put the ML Yan Huo into the second pool since it will not be an active piece.
I don't know, it could still be pretty funny to coordinate an order with the hrmc. Heh. "Hey, eat burst 3 HRMC fire... or eat a missile."
I had good luck with the Yan Huo HRMC. If you're move+shooting with it, it's no slower than a Zuyong. B5 wins a lot of firefights. Just make sure you're out of LOS at the end of your active turn. I've had less luck with the 2xML, but that was before the Neurocinetics profile dropped. Treat it like a sniper rifle, IMO.
Funnily enough, I was just discussing my general liking for S5 HI ( What can I say, I have a soft spot for bulky suits off armor decked with adequately bulky guns. ) with another person and made a list with not only double Yan Huos... but a Su-Jian mixed in too. S5 HI is amaze ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 10 YĀN HUǑ 2 Missile Launchers + TinBot C (Neurocinetics) / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 56) YĀN HUǑ Hyper-Rapid Magnetic Cannon / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 54) SÙ-JIÀN Spitfire, Light Flamethrower, Panzerfaust / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (2 | 59) ZHANSHI Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11) XI ZHUANG Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower, MadTraps / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20) NINJA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Tactical Bow / Pistol, DA CCW, Knife. (0 | 29) GŬILÁNG (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27) CELESTIAL GUARD (Forward Observer) Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) CELESTIAL GUARD (Forward Observer) Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) Zhanshi YĪSHĒNG Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) 6 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army As for what I think of Yan Huos... big threatening gunbricks. I'd imagine the threat of seeing the HRMC on the table would make the enemy really not want to tread around the places it can readily access for observing. While the 2x ML profiles seem to me either to be: A: Use it like you would a pair of twin snipers... except cooler looking. B: Find it a nice view of an important part of the table that isn't accessible in a mere one-two orders of the enemy starting to move around... and enjoy. Multi-HMG seems like a nice compromise between the Neuro and HRMC profiles.
If you have HMRC on the table, you don't need a HacTao HMG, thats right. But I found that you don't need a HMRC on the table when you already have the HacTao HMG, sadly. Sadly, because I love the YanHuo model. But the HacTao is so many times more useful with its Marker State, its HD and the -6 visual mod. The only benefit is the B5 and the AP mode of the HMRC together with the DA round in ARO. But recent tournaments had my HMRC killed in one or two orders of the first turn because its just so easy to hit. Even the ARM5 in cover did not help. I would still run it if I expect my enemy to use a TAG to crack the armor, but any other time I would prefer the HacTao HMG. I ran the Missile YH only once where it was easily killed by an enemy Swiss Guard HMG.
Never have only one heavy hitter. The Rui Shi is a bit flimsy as backup attack piece. Hac Tao and Yan Huo should complement each other nicely enough. If you can fit two TR HMGs on top of each other, they are probably better area denial value than Neuro Huo in terms of deterrence (B2 missile ARO vs 2x4 HMG ARO)
It's not that I just don't like Neuro, It that it didn't work!. I've actually used it and most of the time he was beat due to weight of numbers. 2 vs. 4, 2 vs. 5, etc. However, when I used the regular one he did well, 2 vs. 1, sometimes 2 vs. 2 (if the mods were in his favor).
Yeah, I see the appeal of the two TR bots and two orders. The Yan Huo is BS 14 and ARM 5, so significantly harder to remove - even a -12 MOD lets it fire back or dodge on PH 13. In 0-8" it can fire back two pistol shots at +3, which might surprise opponents. Also, you often can't stack S5 and S3 base sizes in cover on different levels - I know there aren't many areas you could do that on my own table. Even though it's roughly the same role, there are enough trade offs here to make it a dodgy comparison - eg/ you can't drop two TR bots as your reserve model. It also seems to me that a Su Jian spitfire is generally much more use than the hrmc, as crazy mobility, close quarter weapon options, remote presence and NWI probably outweigh +1 burst multi and more dam. But I'd still love the chance to crack open a Jotum with B5 AP dam 15 shots, which is something I've struggled to do with ISS, so I'm going to try them out. I pretty much stated this in the OP though - I've run the other things and this week I'm in love with the Yan Huo models and giving them a try. So to stay on topic... tell me what works and doesn't with those guys, not what you'd take instead.
I agree. Still off topic but I'm leaning more towards the heavy shotgun Su Jian in my ISS builds these days, because I think the synergy between the light flamer and shotgun range bands work better and the AP rounds can tackle heavier targets than the spitfire. Also template mode, obviously. The Su Jian's mobility makes it the ideal thing to scale buildings and come around corners unexpected and a spitfire is not a great gun in those scenarios. Also... the heavy shotgun works just fine in dogbot mode... so when you're bolting to get around that corner you don't have to burn an order to transform like you do with the spitfire where you'd suffer bad range band and -2 BS from staying in mobility mode up close.
Yeah, I agree. It's basically a FN Minimi (M249 SAW in US service) or RPK. Good rate of fire, and that's about it. Granted, Burst really matters in Infinity, and B4 can win you firefights, but you're not going to out-shoot a TRbot with a Spitfire.
In my experience Yan Huo can be defined as two roles (even though I despised it before I actually gave into the look of awesome HRMC). 1) Hard Target Breaker Link Teams, TAG, Whatever you need to hit. Yan Huo literally pulverizes them. I see comparing it to Su Jian, and yes I felt the same - why do you even need slow pig when you can field a good ol' Suji? They cost almost the same anyway. Suji is awesome, but it does have its weaknesses. When real hard targets pop up, just as @Section9 said, Spitfire's performance is rather meh lvl. Im not talking about Panzerf because you all know it is stupid to fire a single shot in your own turn. When you expect the opponents gonna use a link team(they are more likely to pop themselves up to ARO you), overwhelm it with HRMC. 2) BIG Bait I really suffered when started to field YH. Opponents often goes rabid when you field them, eliminating it with extreme prejudice(OK Im not saying about our classified mission). This stressed me quite a lot, but then I realized Yan Huo can bring a painful dillema. You just need some good traps. Yan Huo attract many fans. Then how about placing a lot of traps beside it? Like Shaolins, MadTraps, or even a Hac Tao. This impose a numbing agony to your opponent - vainly try to kill it, and then speedbumped good enough to be vaporized OR leave it unscathed to see their DZ burn down. More fun when you field extreme aggro units like Hsien. So long story short. 1. Yan Huo destroys Links and Hard Targets like TAGs. 2. Yan Huo's soaring aggro sometimes make your opponent straight into your trap or speed bumps. 3. Reconsider picking it against Vanillas - when your opponent declares Sectorial, call him out. He wil earn his bread.
