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Yadu "Deathstar" opinions

Discussion in 'ALEPH' started by Eclipse, Mar 4, 2020.

  1. Eclipse

    Eclipse Spice Dealer

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    Hey guys !

    So, an option I don't see often mentionned here for OSS is rocking a full Yadu Deathstar. I'm aware of the, let's say, strong feelings about the fluff of those gyals (I personnaly quite like it but, as we say in French, "tastes and colors are not to be discussed"). What I'm more interested in is the tactical perspectives they offer.

    From my (beginner) understanding, even tho they enroll as MI, they are more akin to pretty average HI stats and cost wise, except they can't be hacked, benefit from FDL1 in ITS games, trade 1W for NWI + Shock Imm and lose 1 ARM and 3 BTS (but again, are not affraid of hacking). I mean, it's pretty much the best of both worlds. They also come with lots of great options, being Assault and Killer hacker profiles (with Shakti having 2W like regular HI and Courage), (hack-immune) FO, Number 2 and NCO. Stat line is fair enough, BS 13 is competitive in a lot of FtF (not against Hospitaliers I know, although those guys can be hacked and don't have a Number 2 option) and WiP 14 is certainly above average for HI.

    I also like the linked Rudra, turning it to a pretty bonkers death machine with Assisted Fire (BS18 on the 8 to 24 rangeband, Shock, and cover deny, B5 DAM 13 with Red Fury, B4 DAM 12 K1 Ammo for K1 Marksman Rifle). It makes the 5 man Ft bonus vulnerable to hacking tho.

    I'm thinking about running this at the next event I attend to

    Operations Subsection of the S.S.S.
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]5
    YADU (NCO) HMG / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (2 | 41)
    YADU Heavy Rocket Launcher, Submachine Gun / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (2 | 35)
    YADU (Number 2) Combi Rifle, E/Marat / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 32)
    SHAKTI Lieutenant Hacker (Killer Hacking Device. UPGRADE: Sucker Punch) Mk12, E/Marat / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 40)
    RUDRA Red Fury, Mine Dispenser / Electric Pulse. (1 | 40)

    5 SWC | 188 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    So, what am I missing ? I'd like to hear your opinions.
     
    #1 Eclipse, Mar 4, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2020
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  2. Doppelgganger

    Doppelgganger Active Member

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    Looks some redundant hmg + redfury rudra
     
  3. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
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    I'd take K1 Rudra to have an option against heaviest targets, and have a standard hacker somewhere in DZ to run Supportware on it. Otherwise it looks good to me.
     
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  4. Nemo No Name

    Nemo No Name Aleph Cultural Atache
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    It's because the proper name for it is "Dead Yadu Star" :-P

    (just here for the pun, I'm gone now)
     
  5. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    I personally think that the Yadu star is pretty decent but of course it is very expensive. IMO you are better off running an Asura LTL2, Shakti and a Yadu HMG which generates you five orders for the link but is more flexible, cheaper (not by much but it is) and leaves you with the core slot open for a Dakini link. It also is a bit more rounded IMO because it has the Asura HD+ with MSV3 and White Noise, so it's definitely a toolbox package.

    For the actual core team though, that looks relatively solid. Definitely take something to put MML2 on the Rudra mind, and personally I'd either drop the HMG or the Rudra as you in all liklihood won't need both in the team and the SWC can be better spent elsewhere.
     
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  6. Eclipse

    Eclipse Spice Dealer

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    Thanks for your feedback guys !

    I think that the Yadu HMG is more about opening a path and winning fair/disfavorable FtF while the Rudra with its extended MOV and climbing plus is more akin to a 1W hunter/flanker here to split burst and decimate a LI core in 2 turns. Plus he's a repeater that moves with the fireteam for free. I agree there's a point to be made on K1 tho, losing 1B to gain K1 while keeping Shock and saving 1SWC makes sense.

    As an HD+ hacker, I really favor the Danava over the Asura. As I often don't keep enough points for Lamedh and Rebots, I usually have a pretty weak repeater network and rely a lot on Pitchers to get the job done. I also consider the Asura as more of a sellfish unit, since I'll want to Cybermask at the end of my turn most of the time, cancelling any other Supportware. Another point against the Asura Haris is that, while cheaper, it can't make use of the Lt orders without breaking, while NCO allows it. (Edit : in fact it actually can considering NCO is on the HMG. My mistake.)

    Here's what I would be going by

    Operations Subsection of the S.S.S.
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]9 [​IMG]1
    YADU (NCO) HMG / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (2 | 41)
    YADU Heavy Rocket Launcher, Submachine Gun / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (2 | 35)
    YADU (Number 2) Combi Rifle, E/Marat / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 32)
    SHAKTI Lieutenant Hacker (Killer Hacking Device. UPGRADE: Sucker Punch) Mk12, E/Marat / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 40)
    RUDRA K1 Marksman Rifle, Mine Dispenser / Electric Pulse. (0 | 42)
    DART Submachine Gun, Viral Tactical Bow, E/M Grenades / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon, Knife. (0 | 34)
    DANAVAS Hacker (Hacking Device Plus. UPGRADE: Maestro) Combi Rifle + Pitcher / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25)
    PROXY Mk.1 Doctor (MediKit) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    YUDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    PROXY Mk.2 Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 21)
    PROXY Mk.5 (Forward Observer) 2 Submachine Guns, Nanopulser, E/M Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    NETROD . (0 | 4)
    WARCOR (360º Visor) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)

    5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    I actually don't know what to do with the leftover SWC point from the K1, and I had to "downgrade" a Netrod to a Warcor. Dart hunts camos, Mk2 scalpels scary monsters, Mk5 is available for objectives, Danava buffs the crowd and the link goes ramboing with HMG/Rudra and AROing with HRL.
     
    #6 Eclipse, Mar 4, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2020
  7. DukeofEarl

    DukeofEarl Well-Known Member

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    I'd drop either the HRL or HMG from that myself (probably the HMG and focus on the Rudra as my main active killer depending on missions of course) 5 SWC locked up there is pretty rough and limits the rest of your list a lot more than needed. I'd take look at a HMG Garuda as an option for disrupting and fake the Mk2 MSR.
     
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  8. RedeemedRyan

    RedeemedRyan Member

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    I've personally tooled around a lot in Army with a 5-man Yadu Core link team, though I haven't fielded it. I'm definitely a fan, and I'll try to add some helpful feedback here...

    List Advice
    I disagree about dropping the HMG for the HRL. It's not actually about the HMG vs HRL, it's about having NCO in the link vs not having NCO, and especially in a limited insertion list. Being able to get up to 11 or 12 orders (if you take Asura Lt. lvl 2) for your 5 man link is very powerful. I would counsel to keep the HMG as it grants you an additional order to spend for the link, and that order economy is worth a lot more than the middling of SWC options. You could also not have the Lieutenant be in the link at all, and run the Shukra Consultant Lieutenant with Strategos lvl 1 to get a similar effect.

    If you want to free up a little SWC, and also recuperate points, don't forget that the Samekh FTO is a Wildcard for OSS. Now, this will bring more exposure to your link, adding a S3 model instead of a S2 model, however that wasn't already unprecedented with the Rudra being S4. Again, I am not saying that this makes the link better, but it does save on points. Changing the HRL to this option saves you .5 SWC and 18 points. I don't know if the cost benefit is worth it though, having not fielded it myself (I have fielded the Samekh in 5-man Dakini links on ARO duty, but that hardly compares).

    Also, I would ask why you desire Shakti over the Yadu Lieutenant? Is it in order to be able to field a Killer Hacker Device and have a specialist? I usually field her in the link as well, especially when running the Rudra as it gives it some protection. But the Yadu Lieutenant gives you a more flexible load out (having Drop bears) at a reduced cost. It's something to be considered. And if you still would like a specialist in the team, the Yadu FO is available as well.

    With so many NWI units in your list, what is the purpose of the Doctor with the Yudbot? Is it for classifieds? I would caution against spending orders to remove a wound from a target in NWI. I'd simply count it as a sunk cost, and use the wounded unit until it's dead. You don't know that it will receive another wound, but you do know that by sending your Yudbot up to heal it you are: wasting orders with no clear risk-mitigation, possibly killing your NWI unit anyways.

    Tactical Advice
    One trick that can really save your Fireteam's life in the Reactive turn, is to ensure that your team is well hidden (I'd question leaving any out for AROs) and spend your last order by having the Rudra pop-out two Mines on different approach vectors with the Mine Dispenser. This will make any approach extremely costly, and possibly order intensive. You can use it to protect your team, or to help secure an objective/territory that your team is also striking out for or occupying. You can also do this with the Drop Bears that are available to some Yadu load outs (like the Lieutenant I mentioned earlier).

    Don't forget the Rudra has climbing plus. This makes him incredibly effective at gaining unconventional attack angles that your opponent simply could not have anticipated in deployment. Use this to your advantage.

    Also, don't forget the plethora of E/Marats in your link. These things are amazing, especially against other fireteams, needing to intuitive attack a camo marker, and being Large Templates (they out range repeaters) they can easily put deploy-able equipment in the isolated state. They're a great toolbox

    Yadu Death Star
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10
    SHAKTI Lieutenant Hacker (Killer Hacking Device. UPGRADE: Sucker Punch) Mk12, E/Marat / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 40)
    YADU (NCO) HMG / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (2 | 41)
    YADU Heavy Rocket Launcher, Submachine Gun / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (2 | 35)
    YADU (Number 2) Combi Rifle, E/Marat / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 32)
    RUDRA K1 Marksman Rifle, Mine Dispenser / Electric Pulse. (0 | 42)
    PROXY Mk.1 Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 14)
    PROXY Mk.2 Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 21)
    PROXY Mk.5 (Forward Observer) 2 Submachine Guns, Nanopulser, E/M Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    DART Submachine Gun, Viral Tactical Bow, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon, Knife. (0 | 34)
    ZAYIN Rebot HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 26)
    NETROD . (0 | 4)

    6 SWC | 299 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
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  9. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    I agree that the HMG and the Red Fury Rudra fill somewhat different roles, but ultimately they both fill the position of the team's active turn SAW and therefore you probably don't want to have both in there at the same time.

    By all means take the Rudra and run it on its own to take advantage of the Yadu's HMG opening an assault route, but I think you're better having firepower outside of the link as well, so you don't need to concentrate all your long range firepower into an 8" radius bubble on the board.

    Is my advice anyway.
     
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  10. DukeofEarl

    DukeofEarl Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. Use the HRL to open up for a linked Rudra RF to go to work or split the three out of the link in some way.
     
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  11. Eclipse

    Eclipse Spice Dealer

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    Okay so, I tried it today on Quadrant Control. I lost both HMG and HRL on an incredibly braindead first turn order so the value of the lesson learnt might not be very high.

    Because of FDL1, I was able to control a quadrant with the link from the start. This allowed me to threaten my opponent with the Rudra while staying close to my Doctor. Other scenarios however might ask for more movement
    About Shakti, I was intending to use here exactly as mentionned by @RedeemedRyan , to protect the link and make use of the repeater while not exposing herself. She did that well, knocking out the enemy KHD on ORA with Suckerpunch. She also ended up taking a kill with her Mk12 on ORA aswell.
    The Rudra saw great use, both as a 1W hunter and as a Roadblocker, locking down opponent's core link (Morat Vanguard + HRL Suryat) for basically 2 rounds. I also realized that the Rudra is perfectly competent on its own, since I lost the 5 man bonus really early. However, it might be a missplay on my side but I found it the most usefull in ORA, and part of that came from having both B2 and MML2, effectively hitting on 15, which is not possible outside a link. Clinbing Plus also effectively brought a shitton of value.
    Doctor actually saw some use on Shakti, for a single order due to not venturing too far from him with the link. However, considering the beefyness of the Rudra, I might swap it for the engineer and, as suggested, consider NWIs as sunk costs. I definetly would without the Ft bonus dimension but I might just be overvaluing it.
    The Danavas also saw some good use when Shakti died on my opponent's 2nd turn, disabling his TR bot safely with a repeater and actually also KDing his KHD with Maestro (he doctored it).

    Biggest downside I have to say, is to indeed have all my eggs in the same basket. Dart has been able to pull some tricks, effectively dealing with hungries and the corresponding Oznat but dying to some bad rolls against an engaging Daturazi. Mk5 pulled a kill aswell but was promptly downed himself, and the Mk2 didn't saw much use as I keep deploying it poorly.

    About the redundancy of HMG + Red Fury, I would definetly disagree, as the threat they oppose felt really different. The redundancy of the HMG and HRL however is more subject to debate for me. The thing is that I don't know what I would do with the SWC and points freed this way. I guess a Zayin is an option, aswell as a Garuda (which wouldn't fake an Mk2 MSR effectively as @DukeofEarl said, because proxies order is not hidden while they are in HD, but both together could fake an Lt Dasyu, which would be pretty far fetched and require to not use the NCO order. Or maybe I missed something ?).

    I think I'll take the K1 rifle option tomorrow, and try not to fuck up my whole board on the first ten minutes. I'll also try to use deployable weapons more. If we're able to fit two games in our time together I'll try swapping the HRL and the Danava for a Zayin or a Garuda and the Doctor Mk1 for the Hacker. Maybe also dropping Shakti for a Yadu Lt and an Apsara KHD, or the HRL Yadu and the HD/HD+ for a Samekh and an Apsara Jumper Z.
     
    #11 Eclipse, Mar 5, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2020
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  12. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
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    Another point on the Rudra itself is that it's indeed awesome on its own and in ARO; especially when it's put into Suppressive Fire mode. It's basically a HI, so a tough nut to crack even before adding -3 mod, reduced range modifiers don't hurt that much on a unit with Supportware, and Repeater means it's hard to counter it with hacking. Not to mention Climbing Plus allowing it to reach a good spot, and locking down a large part of the table.
     
    #12 Stiopa, Mar 5, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2020
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  13. Eclipse

    Eclipse Spice Dealer

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    Oh right, I forgot SF. I'll definetly will try it as solo roamer then.
     
  14. RedeemedRyan

    RedeemedRyan Member

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    Yeah, SF on Rudra does sound substantial--I haven't employed that trick myself , but really want to now. Thanks @Stiopa

    @Eclipse , how did you screw up your deployment? I'm not asking in order to embarrass you, and hopefully you don't take it that way, but in an interest to see if there's something we could learn from, or analyze. You can DM me if you'd rather not talk openly about your mistake (which I totally get).

    I also had a game a few days ago playing PowerPack, in which I fielded a Yadu Haris. I stupidly tried to assault a JSA 5 man link of Keisotsus and Kempeis, and took a Missile Launcher template to the face, losing the face to face roll and putting a wound on all of my Yadus. It was bad news, and made for an easy turn of clean-up for a hidden deployed Ninja on the next turn. I don't think this is a weakness inherent to Yadu Fireteams, but to Fireteams in general--you run the risk of unit exposure in maneuvering a large squad of troops across the field. You hope to mitigate the exposure as much as possible by winning FTF rolls and moving smartly, but sometimes you mess up. One benefit to having a Yadu Haris as opposed to a different kind of link made up of a single HI with 1W cheerleaders, is that when I did get hit with the ML template, even after every member took a wound i still had a Haris link. I think that's worth something.

    I think Mk5 and Dart in the same list is hard to use. I never want to leave home without either of them, but I find there is so much role confusion in my list when they're both present. They both want to use a ton of orders in the mid-field, and I am never able to utilize one or the other as much as I'd like. If only Dart had the Specialist trait then there'd be no need for the Mk5 FO...Also, don't get me wrong, I do understand that they have different roles, but both being mid-field skirmishers does blur the lines a little bit.

    On SWC option for you @Eclipse if you wanted to take the Red Fury off of the Rudra would be to upgrade the Mk2 AH to the Mk2 TO Sniper. That way you'd have a little less going on in the mid-field (albeit a little less presence as well, so there's a downside too) but more over watch kind of support in ARO. Just a thought.
     
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  15. Eclipse

    Eclipse Spice Dealer

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    @RedeemedRyan Don't worry, this is way below my embarassment threshold. Let's say that, since I don't really understand each troop profile to the fullest (and therefor their purpose/potential plan of action) and am playing against experienced opponents that expect my TO, it just happens to be too predictable and eventually too far from action. I.e, I played a Show of Force game last week against the same Morat opponent, this time running a TAG alongside the TR Bot. The map had a large landing platform (maybe 20*20 inches) on the center, with an aircraft landed to break LoS. So I deployed my Mk2 AHD there, on the left side of the scenery while the largest path was on the right. He went right with both the TR bot and the TAG and locked down my board from my DZ. I was able to score some points with Andromeda, shoved deep on the left border of the table but ended up losing pretty much my whole army, and lost 4-3. I also deployed poorly my Kiranbots, leaving them exposed too much, but nothing peculiar here.

    Mk2 MSR is indeed an interesting option, which definetly would hard solve my deployement weakness. It however proved useful today on Safe Area, rushing a console T3 (plus was betterly deployed, right on the path of my opponent's Sun Tze).

    About Dart and Mk5, I definetly agree. Mk5 simply is dirt cheap and provides a Liaison Officer option. But removing it would allow to play Lamedh instead of Netrods, which can be pretty great. As for Dart, I definetly rely a bit too much on her but let's treat one problem at a time :P
     
    #15 Eclipse, Mar 5, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2020
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  16. regelridderen

    regelridderen Dismember

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    Whenever I see a Fireteam, I see a weak opponent.

    Stacking numbers isn’t the same as maneuvering and tactics. Of course you can brute force your way with a Fireteam, but you don’t need to, and you’ll easily overcommit and use two thirds of your forces to kill a couple of cheerleaders. Another thing is, that you telegraph your strategy and tactics to your opponent. Once that Fireteam is down, he’ll know exactly, how you’ll act for the rest of the game.
     
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  17. Urobros

    Urobros Well-Known Member

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    The Yadus core is amazing "in stats". They can'd to almost anything. The problems is like others "core" about 30/40 points per model, you are forced to play IL, so, if you face a spam list or a camo list, probably you will suffer a lot. It is the same problem as always. Still, if you play IL or Tactical Window, it could be a great choice this core.

    Best regards!
     
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  18. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

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    Wonder how comes all leaderboard tops are crowded with weak opponents...
     
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  19. Eclipse

    Eclipse Spice Dealer

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    Those are valid remarks. Tbh, we started using a clock in my local meta a few weeks ago and as I'm somewhat a beginner player, regardless of the match-up, LI helps me a lot to stay in the time frame and make the most out of my orders.
    I think that anytime I would feel like bringing something like this in a serious competitive setting, I would pair it with a 15+ order list for playing against Shas, TAK and IA. I feel like this one is pretty decent at pusing buttons honnestly, with a fair share of FD specialists and the almighty mid-field Mk2 for last minute contest.

    Also, I red this topic again, especially @Solar 's response that I somewhat discarded abrutly then, and I came up with a dual link list as he suggested. Granted, it is not a Yadu Core list, so somewhat off topic, but I feel like it holds some potential. The Garuda could be replaced by a Zayin and a Yudbot, but I figured an AD could be afforded considering Lt2 and NCO.

    Operations Subsection of the S.S.S.
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10
    ASURA Lieutenant L2 Hacker (Hacking Device Plus UPGRADE: Redrum) MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, AP CCW. (0.5 | 78)
    YADU (NCO) HMG / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (2 | 41)
    SHAKTI Hacker (Killer Hacking Device. UPGRADE: Sucker Punch) Mk12, E/Marat / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 40)
    DAKINI Tacbot MULTI Sniper Rifle / Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 21)
    DAKINI Tacbot Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (0 | 13)
    DAKINI Tacbot Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (0 | 13)
    DAKINI Tacbot Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (0 | 13)
    CSU Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11)
    GARUDA Tacbot Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 28)
    PROXY Mk.1 Engineer Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    PROXY Mk.2 Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 21)
    PROXY Mk.5 (Forward Observer) 2 Submachine Guns, Nanopulser, E/M Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)

    6 SWC | 299 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
    #19 Eclipse, Mar 26, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2020
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  20. Kortz

    Kortz Active Member

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    Well the Yadu Core list that I play from time to time is this one, it has some decent defense if needed (but be mindful every order counts, more on a LI list) thinking that half the sime you are not going to be the attacking player. Overall it has some diversity on ways to attack (Ammo variety) or do objectives depending the situation.Really fun that mny people do not expect the Flash pulse of the FO to reach 20s on the core, a great source for enemies wasting orders.

    OSS IL YPT
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10
    NETROD . (0 | 4)
    DANAVAS Hacker (Hacking Device Plus. UPGRADE: Maestro) Combi Rifle + Pitcher / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25)
    Rebot SAMEKH FTO Missile Launcher / Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 17)
    RUDRA K1 Marksman Rifle, Mine Dispenser / Electric Pulse. (0 | 42)
    YADU (NCO) HMG / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (2 | 41)
    YADU (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, E/Marat / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 32)
    YADU (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, E/Marat / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 32)
    YADU Lieutenant MULTI Rifle, E/Marat, Drop Bears (Throwing Weapon) / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 36)
    PROXY Mk.1 Engineer Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    PROXY Mk.2 MULTI Sniper Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 24)
    PROXY Mk.5 (Forward Observer) 2 Submachine Guns, Nanopulser, E/M Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    NAGA (Minelayer) Boarding Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 27)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
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