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Winterforce Jotum list advice needed

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by costi, Oct 18, 2020.

  1. costi

    costi New Member

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    The Jotum is one of my favourite piecej in Infinity and with the buffs they got in N4 I want to take one for a spin.

    Here's a list I am toying with:
    https://infinitytheuniverse.com/arm...jAQIAAIXMAQMAACYBAgAAJQEBAAAlAQEAAgEAMgEBAA==

    The idea is to run the Jotum and Bulleeteer as agressive pieces, with a Karhu/Orc/Fusilier team as backup. The Karhu Engineer can form a Duo with the Bulleteer, join the Fusiliers or operate independently with a Palbot and apart from that it can do some damage with an unexpected Blitzen shot.
    Trauma Doc (with 1 or 2 Palbots, depending on Karhu) and Fusi Paramedic are there to keep the biological part alive and Nokk with EVO Mulebot provide hacking defense.
    Warcor is Warcor :)

    I did not want to make the Jotum an Lt because it is IMHO putting too many eggs in one basket, and this way I can use NCO on the Karhu freely. 2.5 SWC is also rather steep.

    Do you have any suggestions?
    I have not played in a long time, so I'm not up to speed on all the new options ;)

    Unrelated: how do you put a picture of a list on the forum? Manual cut and paste?
     
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  2. Dyne

    Dyne Well-Known Member

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    You can C&P an image direct to the post.

    Your list is fun. Maybe I would change a couple of things to fit a paramedic karhu. That way, you will have a 5 member fireteam and a duo (or an extra karhu to supply a unit lost); or a core of 3 and a karhu haris.

    agl3aW50ZXJmb3IQIFN2YWwgSm90dW0gdGVzdIEsAQEKACwBAQAAhc0BBQAAhc0BAwAABQEKAAABAQEAAAEBCgAAhc0BBAAAIwECAAAmAQIAAIXMAQUA
     
    #2 Dyne, Oct 18, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2020
    Urobros and costi like this.
  3. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower
    Warcor

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    It's so tempting to do something like this:

    [​IMG]

    But you can probably build other options with more flexibility:

    [​IMG]

    I'm uploading those images to imgbb and then using "image" from the toolbar to insert them using their URL.
     
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  4. Urobros

    Urobros Well-Known Member

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    You have a Jotum so I like your list!! :D Placing apart the Joke, I thing your build was solid, it don't need any extra adjustment, it is well right know and it should work propertly. Still, you have a lot of others options comming from another players with very small changes, except maybe for @AdmiralJCJF .

    it surprises me the almost "autoinclude" of the "Bullet", so I will give to you another "look". Still, as I said before your list it is a good lists. My proposal has the same "base" as yours and the others.

    https://infinitytheuniverse.com/arm...BCgAAhc0BAwAAhc0BAgAAhc4BBAAAhdIBAQAAAQEBAA==

    Yes, I haven't REMS or Nokken, but I have a Haris. :)

    Best regards!
     
  5. Rot_Sechs

    Rot_Sechs Active Member

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    I like this list.
    Whats the evo for when you bring no ad or hidden to fake ad? Dont see a point to bring them yet over 2 mules. Take that added order, split the list 8(10)/7 and put the bulleteer in group 2 with both fugazis. Its a bit wierd for coordinated orders in group 1 that way but i dont see much potential for them anyway in the current setup. Group2 however could have some very good repositioning of defensive tools via coord this way, considering the relevant 4 rems high mov.
    Coords are also a good reason to strip the karhu of his palbot and allow the engi to set them up very broadly in deployment.
    You would end up with 3 hitters, 3 spec in group 1 and 1 hitter 2 specs in group 2.
     
  6. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower
    Warcor

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    The EVO is there to further frustrate your opponent by adding a Firewall to your Jotum and making it even harder to use Hacking as an option against it. It also allows you to run Marksmanship on your Bulleteer, which takes it from a strong, to a truly premier attack piece. But I can see the argument for taking a pair of orders instead.

    I remain unconvinced that 8/7 is an effective split. It seems far to easy to cripple both order pools with only a few casualties. Far better, in my mind to have the Jotum and the Bulleteer on different flanks (suitable to their range bands) and one-two punch with one or the other. Or simply go all in with the Bulleteer early, accept the loss when you overextend it, then refill from Group 2 so you can go again with the Jotum in Turn 2.
     
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  7. Rot_Sechs

    Rot_Sechs Active Member

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    I can see the benfit of marksman with the new cover rules. In the past i was able to outmaneuver units in cover with j+/c+ or shooting holes in the aro net. Now this might be worth the double self tax. But i hate self taxing for a unit that might not be alive in 2nd turn. And a jotum list is so pricey already.

    Fairy dust i dislike against everything but a dedicated hack list. Every other list should see its hackers killed before the tag ever gets risked. So far im not convinced that n4 has increased the threatlevel of hackers or their number of appearances. Im not putting msv3 into my lists to counter camo specialised lists and i wont put evo in just to counter specialised hacker lists.

    Im used to playing tags with secondary hitpieces and joan backup. 8(10)/7 is suprisingly reliable for going second if your aro net does its job long enough to protect your hitters. You can end up loosing all flashpulses and midfield chaff and still punish the extended opponent with 4-6 orders for the tag and 3-5 orders for the secondary. I also prefer the engi to be in the same group as the tag. That way i can keep the engi close via coordinated orders and dont have to sacrifce on the group 2 punch. This is a non issue for swf, which might also be the only reason why i would consider a list like we are discussing here for jotum goodness outside of vanilla.

    9(11)/6 i would restrict for lists with infiltrator or ad and 2 mules in group 2. Guranteed 3 orders even if falling behind after going 2nd. 10(12)/5 puts to much pressure on the lt roll going your way. Especially if your 2nd group only has pathfinder. If you loose 1st go you can be stuck with both attack pieces being contested and a dead aronet. Which leaves you very little room to dig them out with group 2. Yes they might pull it of themselves. But you most defnitly will lack orders to take revenge on the enemy pool afterwards.

    If cb would have gone for 16 generator restriction. That were the most fun 10/6 splits i played. 10/5 will stay a nono for me.
     
  8. Teslarod

    Teslarod when in doubt, Yeet

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    8/7 or 9/6 split is pretty nice if you're not running a premium Link/Solo piece and instead multiple medium Active Turn pieces that play opportunist. I.e. an OSS list around Andromeda, Dart & Posthumans.
    For a TAG list or generally in PanO focussed around a strong solo HI TAGs or punchy Links I don't see that working so well. but maybe there's an Infiltrator Spam list somewhere in there that would work.

    I've seen examples where 10/5 was a pretty bad idea, namely Ariadna with Uxia, Antipodes, Van Zant had things stranded with 1 Order in group 2 when 3 would have really helped.
    Most of the time not going 10/5 feels like a trap though.
     
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  9. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower
    Warcor

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    Yeah, I should have been clearer.

    For a list like this, where everything is starting in the deployment zone, it's a bad idea to split like that.

    Midfield heavy lists can get away with it a lot more.
     
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