Wildcard trooper (Haidao)

Discussion in '[Archived]: N3 Rules' started by Cannon Fodder, Mar 10, 2019.

  1. Cannon Fodder

    Cannon Fodder Well-Known Member

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    The wording on the Haidao is:

    Up to 1 Haidoa can join any fireteam of this sectoral army.

    Does this mean I can use this wildcard ability once, or once per fireteam? Example: a list with both a Fireteam Core & Harris.
     
  2. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    One per Fireteam, so one in your Core, one in your Haris, one in each Duo etc.
     
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  3. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    This contains a Zuyong Haris of 3 models
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]3
    HǍIDÀO (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 37)
    SHÀNG JÍ (Fireteam: Haris, Tactical Awareness) Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower + TinBot B (Deflector L2) / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0.5 | 43)
    SON-BAE Yaókòng Smart Missile Launcher / Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 18)

    3.5 SWC | 98 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    This contains a Zuyong Haris of 3 models and a Zuyong Core of 5 models separated by a Warcor
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]8 [​IMG]1
    HǍIDÀO (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 37)
    SHÀNG JÍ (Fireteam: Haris, Tactical Awareness) Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower + TinBot B (Deflector L2) / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0.5 | 43)
    PANGGULING FTO (Repeater) Light Shotgun / Electric Pulse. (0 | 13)
    WARCOR (Sixth Sense L1) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)
    HǍIDÀO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 26)
    SHÀNG JÍ (Tactical Awareness) Spitfire / Pistol, Shock CCW. (2 | 45)
    PANGGULING FTO (Repeater) Light Shotgun / Electric Pulse. (0 | 13)
    SON-BAE Yaókòng Smart Missile Launcher / Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 18)
    TAI SHENG Mk12, Chain-colt, Stun Grenades / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 45)

    5.5 SWC | 243 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    The latter list is fully legal. Replace the Warcor with a Daoying and one Yisheng and one Gongcheng and it's not actually a terrible list, either, even if the Shang-Ji should probably be replaced with actual Zuyong to make it more points efficient.
     
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  4. Tanan

    Tanan Well-Known Member

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    Also keep in mind that you can cancel the fireteam anytime for free (even during ARO declaration) and create new teams during your turn by spending command tokens.

    wildcard troopers are really good at spreading that burst+1 and sixth sense L2 where it’s needed.

    What isn’t 100% sure if you can create or cancel fireteams after dice are rolled but before results are declared. If you could, that would double the crit probability.
     
    #4 Tanan, Mar 10, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2019
  5. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Uh... what?

    Target MODs are calculated prior to dice roll, the results of the dice are not declared but tallied. As soon as the dice are on the table they are either a hit, crit or a miss of the value shown whether you have announced them or not. There's no gap in which you can see if 3 points of BS would give you a crit or not as the results are already in at that point.
     
  6. Tanan

    Tanan Well-Known Member

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    Are you sure? I haven’t seen any post about this issue.

    To be honest, I’m pretty sure that you shouldn’t be able to do this. That being said it would be nice to have a clarification about fireteam creation an cancellation. For example, can you create a fireteam after enemy declares an ARO? Some weird Sixth Sense interactions become even more difficult.

    For maximum confusion, try creating a new fireteam during coordinated order ARO declaration.
     
    #6 Tanan, Mar 10, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2019
  7. solkan

    solkan Well-Known Member

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    1. You can't create fireteams during someone else's Active Turn, because doing so requires spending a command token.
    2. Members of fireteams are prohibited from participating in coordinated orders.
    3. Attempts at creating a fireteam between the steps of "Spend an order" and the end of resolving that order are subject to :warning:Deterrent:warning:. No one wants to see that happen, or have to clean up afterwards.

    Seriously. When you spend an order, you fix the models that are activated by the order except as how the concurrency rules allow for changes. And, as the Fireteam Coherency rules demonstrate, you do end up in situations where the set of models activated by the order are are a superset of the membership of the fireteam. But, at the same time, it's not mechanically possible to do the following:

    1. Spend an order to activate Fireateam A.
    2. Immediately dissolve the fireteam and then recreate it using the same members.
    because it's not the same fireteam in Step 1 and Step 2. When you dissolve the fireteam you removed the fireteam leader, destroying the fireteam that had been activated by the order. So the sequence of events becomes:

    1. Spend an order to activate Fireteam A.
    2. Immediately dissolve the fireteam. The fireteam has no valid skills to declare but is required to declare something. The end result is equivalent to declaring Idle.
    3. Resolve AROs against those models.
    4. Resolution step.
    5. Now, finally, you create the new fireteam.

    Claiming any other result requires violating the definitions of fireteam activation.

    The only thing you end up doing when you dissolve a fireteam during an order declaration is forfeiting fireteam benefits. If you use Sixth Sense to delay an ARO and then you lose that level of Sixth Sense you don't get your ARO, for example.
     
    #7 solkan, Mar 10, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2019
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  8. Wolf

    Wolf https://youtube.com/@StudioWatchwolf

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    Dice are rolled at Resolution, after an Order and respective ARO.s are declared, so I’d presume not - unless there’s some explicit caveat to that general rule somewhere.
     
  9. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Most Mods are determined during Resolution, so so long as you dissolved the Fireteam prior to Resolution you could remove the Fireteam Mods (Burst is weirder because that's determined at Declaration not Resolution).

    As @Mahtamori says though you absolutely can't do this to manipulate Target numbers: Target numbers are determined and then the dice are rolled.

    When this was last discussed we basically worked out that the only way to play this was that you couldn't form Fireteams between Step 3 and 7 of an Order or madness ensues.

    https://forum.corvusbelli.com/index.php?threads/27093/
     
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