Old forum, they just need import here and an upgrade to be up to date http://infinitytheforums.com/forum/topic/47686-nca-tactica-part-1-light-infantryskirmishers/ http://infinitytheforums.com/forum/topic/26836-tactica-neoterran-capitaline-army-updated-for-hsn3/
@andre61 There is also @Vaulsc 's Summary on Youtube on them. That is if you like a more critical approach. Not sugarcoating things like the Orc Haris or Bolts is up to personal taste. I for one am a fan of calling things as they are, instead of desperately looking for a way to use them.
I tend to think this video is a good one from Vaul. Granted I like using Bolts (and this part is going to be controversial but they are not bad as everyone says they are) and disagree with him on that, but for players looking to start NCA I'd point them to this video.
I'm kind of with you there. Bolts are quite useful for Hunting Party or as a 3 man Core. Five of them loaded with MLs, Combi+LSGs though? No thank you. That's what I intended to say. Some troops have their uses, just not unless you play them in a very specific setup or matchup. Whereas others are always useful and easy to include.
I have ran them as a full core (though it was with Spitfire, ML, Paramedic and 2 Boarding Shotguns) and they can pull their weight. That said, the three man core tends to be better with them. Which is a sin that they do not have Haris at all, which is their major downfall I think. Though back on-topic, I think the person who wrote those should transfer those to the new website if they are still around. If not, probably ask permission or start again
I didn't actually realize there was no NCA tactica on this forum yet. I thought it had already been ported over from the old forums. I'll see what I can do about that. NCA is actually my favorite sectorial.
Being critical isn't necessarily any more objective than being positive about something (though it's usually less pleasant to deal with). However, you've now gotten my curiousity, but not so that I want to hear 2 hours of discussion. What's wrong with the Orc Haris? Or Orcs in NCA? Looking at the sectorial, there is NO other option for Haris, and two Core teams: Fusies and Bolts. Further the HI options are Swiss or Aquila Guard, both of which are nicer than the Orc, but at 1/3 again the cost. Not sure they're necessarily Orc + 3/4 Fusies better, really seems to depend on what you're trying to do.
To have a quick summary as to the Orc Haris: Orc Haris is expensive, and we are talking about 120+ points expensive. And with little benefit outside of order efficiency and +1 burst on active turn attack. Orcs, both in vanilla and NCA, are generally outclassed with most HIs. Doubly so in NCA, where you get access to two already great HIs in the form of both the Swiss and Aquila Guard. Kind of similar point to the second, but the ORCs have very little specialists options and it is not that great. Let alone they do not have any outstanding abilities to take them.
ORCS aren't bad. They just don't stack up well against other stuff you can get in the Sectorial for the same cost. An optimally configured ORC Haris is 120 points. A Swiss Guard HMG and 5 Fusiliers is cheaper at 118. Even decked out with heavy weapons, a Swiss and Fusiliers are 128-131 points. The ORCs need to offer something that the rest of the Sectorial can't. Grenades? Nanopulsers? Pulsars?
Honestly what Orcs need is a mixed Link and maybe more. If you want to run a HI link and take the Orcs it's because you settle for them. In comparison a Full Core of 4 Magisters and a Hospitaler HMG is 130, where 3 Orcs with Haris, HMG and Deflector come in at 10 points less. I'd argue the fully kitted out Hospitaler/Santiago + Magister Core at 160 still beats a theoretical maxed out Orc Core for 190 in both versatility and performance. For someone who plays all PanO Sectorials I can only shake my head at when looking for a reason to run them. And again the solo Orc HMG is okay, it's the Link that is terrible. The Deflector is only L1 which is barely enough to negate WIP12, BTS3 and lack of Stealth. The plain AHD is probably the worst Specialist choice HI can get and needs some incentive (for instance the Fatherknight does a good job to make it work). You can't even combine it with the Deflector without forfeiting the HMG. Paying full price for ARM4, BS14 and PH14 without BS MODs to compliment ARM/BS or anything at all to combine with PH is frankly terrible value and puts several nails in their coffin. 3SWC is also a tough asking price for their package - if they'd at least get a cut here... but alas they don't. Orcs also don't have diverse Profiles and appear rather limited. Special mention to the complete lack of auxiliary Skills, DTWs and other secondary weapons. The last thing is that they can only link with themselves. With readily availalable mixed Links being everywhere (wich admittedly is a new thing) they stand out in a bad way. Hunting Party is more or less the only reason to run them. And even here I'd ask myself why not to go for Bolts instead.
Those of us who are working on one haven't finished yet. That's the best, and only real, explanation. The one from the old forum wasn't worth porting over, I looked at that possibility.
Yeah, it's expensive, but Orcs are pretty decent, BS14, ARM4, W2 are very nice stats. And the cheapest Orc haris is 106 points (3 BS Orcs). Personally I'd run them with BS, HMG, TinBot MULTI Rifle, which is a nicely rounded out set of Orcs. The Aquila Guard and the Swiss are both MUCH better options, but they should be at 2x the price in some cases. If they weren't better options, then the game would be out of balance. Personally I'm unimpressed with the Aquila after the changes in N3. 18 pts more for MSV3 seems like a lot. I'd rather have a cheap Orc AND a Black Friar/Deva. And the Aquila has none, and the Swiss has the same assault hacker profile. Now the Swiss has marker state, bts6, and +1 WIP, and a MULTI Rifle, but for 28 points I'd hope there would be some benefit. As for benefits, being a PanO HI is pretty nice. I get the desire for bigger, better, badder, but all those things come at a pretty high price. I think it's a little too easy to compare one profile with another, notice the nicer toys on the other profile, and completely miss the most important stat of all, Points.
They do, cheap HI. Either that's interesting, or it's not. I think the Haris option is a bit pricey, but it's not 120 points, it's 106.
I did mention the 120 points is optimally configured. But yeah, if someone wants a Haris team of 3 boarding shotguns and nothing else, you can definitely field them for 106. But if you want that kind of tactical role, you can get 2 Mech Deploy shotgun/flamethrowers REMs and an AD shotgun for half the cost... Once again it comes down to ORCs being fine, but there being other options in the Sectorial that deliver better results for less cost. As for ORCs qualifying as "cheap" HI, I suppose it's all relative. Based on how I play NCA, the package of running 3 visible, BTS3 Hackable boarding shotguns somewhere on the table isn't my best use of 106 points. Comparing to my Swiss/Fusilier example, t's just game mechanics: 3 Orders that fights at BS14, versus 6 Orders with BS15 (with TO on the Swiss also.) The ORCs aren't bad here, it's just that those points can buy me something that's more effective in combat, generates more orders, and is more generally applicable to many useful situations without surrendering efficacy.
Because it doesn't take much space to write "Take a Swiss Guard and watch helplessly as it murders the world."
Sorry, it's not just you, it's also Tesla Rod through that out there, and I missing the "optimally configured". Still not sure what this means, since it's 3SWC/121 pts for BS, MULTI/Tin Bot, HMG. Anyway, I don't think Haris is the way to go with them. Right, but you're comparing Haris to single models. Turning your example around, you can take 1 Orc HMG, and a Hexas Killer Hacker/Black Friar, or 3 fugazi and a warcor, so 4 orders at BS14, vs 1 order at BS15. The Swiss is nice until you run into something with MSV2, at which point he's got +1 BS and +1ARM. Locally I seldom see people play lists without at least one visor, sometimes multiple, at which point all the TO becomes so much expensive junk.
I've never been disappointed when bringing an ORC HMG. The main issue I have with them is that the ORC brings firepower and NCA has a TON of firepower choices. So it often stays out of lists. And as for the MSV2 issue. It's hard to have redundancy with MSV so I often have a "kill the MSV" option in my list. That way the TO/ODD tools can have free reign of the board.
